/e/OS is android lol. Yes it’s better than the version of android that ships with phones by default, but grapheneos is still way better than e/os (even though they’re all android)
We need hardware requirements so that not just pixel phones can get grapheneOS. Giving into Google hardware to escape Google software is a step I don’t want to take. I’ll take calyxOS or divestOS until then.
We need hardware requirements so that not just pixel phones can get grapheneOS.
GOS has strict hardware requirements to increase security that currently only Pixels meet. They won’t, and shouldn’t, compromise their standards which would give you a weaker OS. Want GOS on other vendors? Convince those vendors to up their hardware game.
Yes, hardware requirements for Android need to be higher. That’s the only way you get other manufacturers.
Requirements exist. It’s just that device manufacturers don’t seem to care.
I think it’s more reasonable to look at Linux phones than GrapheneOS supporting anything beyond Pixels. I was hoping to get a Linux phone this time around, but they just don’t support the basic features well enough. Hopefully my next phone will be a Linux phone, but we’ll see.
Giving into Google hardware to escape Google software is a step I don’t want to take
Yeah, it’s annoying. However, it’s important to note that Google is generally really good about security, so it’s not a surprise that their phones have a lot of cool security features.
I also didn’t want to give Google money, so I bought a used Pixel and saved a ton of money. I got a Pixel 8 in like-new condition for <$400 on eBay after a big discount from an eBay sale, and I can expect 6+ years of updates (not just security updates, but OS updates). I’m really enjoying GrapheneOS so far. I guess I tangentially helped them, but at least my dollars_ didn’t go to Google.
That said, CalyxOS and DivestOS are also fine projects, and I seriously considered using them instead.
My main issue with Pixels is their price, even the Pixel A. They are completely unaffordable new, and only hit below $300 when they barely have any support yet (or are used). I don’t mind using an EOL phome because with short support like on phones it is unavoidable, but that would be after alreafdy overpaying.
Honestly the short 5 year from original release till EOL thing really fucking annoys me, but it’s literally every phone on the market. I’ve looked, it’s impossible to find a phone that doesn’t force you to replace it every few years unless you go to a plain dumb phone that only supports voice calls and maybe basic SMS with no apps. That’s just a nonstarter in this day and age.
Even alternative Android firmware like GrapheneOS and /e/OS are dependent on the stock firmware releases by the phone manufacturer so when the manufacturer goes EOL and stops releasing updates your alternative installs also are effectively EOL.
The only solution to this problem I’ve seen that seems like it has a chance is Linux Phone OS, but it still has several problems that make it unusable for most people (biggest one probably being that it provides absolutely terrible battery life).
It’s really revolting to be forced to change phones just because of this.
A phone should be secured for way more than this!
I mean realistically you would not be replacing the phone just because it hits EOL, maybe if you’re wealthy and/or have a higher threat model.
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I would only buy a used one anyways. Even when they’re pretty new you can get good deals on swappa, even for new in box ones
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Most people around me carry budget phones under $200. so no, far from a steal.
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You live in a richer area then. Most people where I live make less than 1k a month.
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Unfortunately the fact that NFC can’t be used on anything that’s rooted anymore is kind of a deal breaker. If I could use google pay and my normal banking apps with GrapheneOS I would switch to it today.
Unfortunately the fact that NFC can’t be used on anything that’s rooted anymore is kind of a deal breaker.
NFC can be used on GOS, and they frown on rooting.
If I could use google pay and my normal banking apps with GrapheneOS I would switch to it today.
It’s due to PlayIntegrity API wanting a “Google certified OS,” which is ironically less secure than hardware attestation that GOS supports. I doubt Google would change their model, but your bank might. Some banks do support GOS, and they have changed at the request of their customers before. Send them the GOS documentation and you might get lucky.
https://grapheneos.org/articles/attestation-compatibility-guide
not being able to use contactless pay does not equal “NFC can’t be used on anything”.
Technically you’re correct, but it’s effectively the same thing since I’ve literally never used NFC for anything besides contactless payment and initial phone setup when migrating from an older Android phone to a newer one. For most people NFC is synonymous with contactless payment.
it’s effectively the same thing since I’ve
big detail. I connect my Sony XM4s to my phone with NFC multiple times a day. not to mention that you still can use Google Pay on rooted devices with some workarounds. not to mention that some bank apps don’t use Google Pay for contactless payments at all. I’ve been paying via NFC with my bank app on a rooted phone for years until they scrapped their own solution and adopted the GPay approach instead.
If you get a pixel watch you can pair it and use that for Google Pay FYI and have Graphene OS on your phone.
Sorry, I don’t understand the motivation here, you want to not let Google spy on you via their OS, but are perfectly happy to give them your entire payment record?
Not my entire payment record but certainly everything I use my phone to pay for. I’m willing to give Google some of my info as long as I’m in control of what info I’m giving them. Everything I do on my phone is too much. If a 3rd party offered a NFC payment app I’d happily use that over GPay, but until that exists GPay is the only option. Ultimately GPay is safer than using actual credit cards because it’s more resistant to skimming. The extra security outweighs the loss of privacy in this specific case. I’m not happy about that but there doesn’t seem to be a better alternative at this time.
You know that if someone skims your card and makes a fraudulent purchase, you will likely be able to get your money back, right?
What do you think will happen if someone exploits a 0-day in GPay to do this? How could your bank know the purchase was fraudulent? At least with a card it is obvious that this can happen.
If you care about “secure” payments that much, why not use cash?
You know that if someone skims your card and makes a fraudulent purchase, you will likely be able to get your money back, right?
Sure but it’s a major pain in the ass. Every time it happens I have to cancel my current cards, request a new one, find all the services I’m currently paying with the now cancelled card and update them to a different card while I wait for the replacement, and then maybe remember to swap them back when the new card shows up. It doesn’t happen constantly but if I use cards to pay they seem to get skimmed about once every year or two.
What do you think will happen if someone exploits a 0-day in GPay to do this? How could your bank know the purchase was fraudulent? At least with a card it is obvious that this can happen.
Literally never happened before, but same way they know a credit charge is fraudulent, I tell them. Also if someone found a 0-day in GPay I wouldn’t be the only one complaining of fraudulent charges, they’d be flooded with complaints.
If you care about “secure” payments that much, why not use cash?
Because that’s a pain in the ass. I don’t care about “secure” payments, I care about not having to spend days dealing with the aftermath of it. Paying with cash means I need to constantly go to ATMs to withdraw money, and if I’m doing that my odds of getting my card skimmed actually go up so it doesn’t even protect my from that.
Literally never happened before, but same way they know a credit charge is fraudulent, I tell them.
The reason I brought this up is because I read a story of a European guy who had someone pay for something in Brazil using his card, through GPay. He didn’t get his money back, as the bank didn’t believe him (as GPay is supposed to be secure). Take this with a grain of salt though, as I can’t find this story now.
Also if someone found a 0-day in GPay I wouldn’t be the only one complaining of fraudulent charges, they’d be flooded with complaints.
Not necessarily. Maybe a company like Pegasus is already exploiting a 0-day to see the purchase history of people, but they’re smart enough to not attract attention by stealing.
Banking apps work, at least mine do. NFC works.
Only tap to pay doesn’t work.
Been using GrapheneOS for close to 2 years, love it. Not perfect, but it’s solid & does everything I need well enough. Even with the minor bugs, it’s a hell of a lot better than having Google’s or any other vendor’s proprietary bloatware stuck on there.
I would say you should use GrapheneOS first, if you don’t have a Pixel, use DivestOS, if you can’t use that, use /e/. That’s the order I would put them in for security and privacy.
Not only is it still Android but the thing that the article says is special about it, blocking trackers and stuff, is trivial to do without installing a custom OS image. Change your DNS, trackers/ads gone.
Almost every paragraph is it’s own, self-sufficient, malignant cancer. How did this even get published?
AI: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Even the name is a marketing turd
Iirc E/OS is based on Lineage, but takes a horrifying long time to patch in security updates on top of Lineage’s already somewhat laggy patches. If you choose to use it make sure you’re aware of that going in.
Also, like IIGxC said it’s a android. Maybe slightly more private that most stock versions on most phones. But that’s like saying [insert Linux distro] is better than Linux.
LineageOS will only patch Android. It will not patch hardware vulnerabilities after the device no longer has support from the manufacturer.
Both of these OSes are dangerous for privacy and security.
What’s your suggestion for hardware patches after the manufacturer ends support?
There is no option. There is too much variation in the various phone chips for the hardware hacking community to reverse engineer more than a bare handful. And as soon as the hardware has been reverse engineered, it will never be used again by a manufacturer making the exercise largely pointless.
Add to that, the fact that Qualcomm actively discourages long term support of their chips….
That’s why Fairphone choose a QCM6490 for the fairphone 5. It’s far from being the best, but it has longer term support than mainstream oriented SOC.
Since the SOC will probably be enough for most of users, it’s not a bad option I guess.
Well then I really hope the Fairphone 5 is gonna get really long term support and start a new trend in that regard.
Just buying a new phone every 5 years isn’t sustainable!
They advert for a support between 8 and 10 years (at least 5 major version of Android, and security patches after that). I don’t know their politic about the availability of the repair parts, but if it’s for the same amount of time, I’ll be happy.
I changed the battery and the usb port of my OP7 last year… the oneplus site didn’t sell them anymore, I had to go on aliexpress to have both … That’s quite frustrating for a device that is 5 years old…
8 to 10 years is good, but it should be just a start.
I’m still using my PlayStation 3 and a computer from 15 years ago (as a backup) and I think it should be the same with smartphones
Exactly my point. Thank you.
Get a new phone the vendor does support.
Firmware patching is applying low-level firmware to the modem or baseband, similar to a BIOS update on a desktop or server. These binary libraries are (a) proprietary, and (b) opaque to the user (meaning they’re not documented like normal software)
Once a vendor drops support for a platform, that’s it, that’s the end of the line. The device will still work, but any, glitches, firmware vulnerabilities, or updates for network-side changes will no longer be addressed.
This is just not realistic though, as the support is so short. You cannot buy phones ever few years. Only thing you can realistically do is apply at least Lineage and exercise caution.
Denying reality isn’t realistic either.
Knowing your threat model and being aware of your tradeoffs and decisions is useful. Maybe security isn’t more important than longevity, but the phone owner should be making a deli rate choice.
With the new pixels having 7 years of support things are improving. It would be nice for them to open source the hardware specs at the end of the support window…
Who’s going to be digging into the depths of a 5+ year old phone on the off chance they can find a baseband vulnerability though?
Even if they do find something, the number of people for them to exploit is probably going to be vanishingly small.
https://www.theverge.com/2021/5/18/22440813/android-devices-active-number-smartphones-google-2021
There are 3 billion Android devices. So basically everyone is incentivized to break in. Especially if the firmware is not updating, that means once you find an exploit it’s good forever
Plus, and most people don’t realize this, the same chips are used in multiple different phones. So you just have to break the baseband once, and you get into multiple different phone models
Although using an up to date Android userspace is still less bad than stopping all the updates once the vendor jumps the ship.
It’s not going to stop a dedicated attacker, but having a somewhat secure webview that’s not going tu crumble under the first piece of malicious javascript goes a long way towards the peace of mind.
If a rootkit is hiding at the hardware level, it may not matter what operating system or web browser you’re using on your phone. A rootkit at this low level could potentially evade detection by the OS and modify files or memory without the operating system’s knowledge. It may also be able to disrupt secure boot processes and monitor radio transmissions like Bluetooth, WiFi, and NFC.
Once an exploit is found that works on a particular device model, and attackers know the device manufacturer will never release firmware updates again, they could start searching for any users of that phone model. A rootkit installed this way may remain on the phone permanently since firmware updates are no longer being provided. The phone user may be unaware their device has been compromised.
LineageOS does not employ a dedicated security engineer for each phone model. Maintainers with LineageOS typically take the latest firmware from the original device manufacturer and import it into their build process. But if the latest firmware release from the manufacturer is already three years old, it’s possible there may now be several undiscovered vulnerabilities in that outdated code.
So for the average users that only want to go on with their lives and not buy brand new phones every 2-3 years (or don’t live in places where fairphone and pixel phones are available) what would be the solution?
If a person is not some POI, don’t you think that wouldn’t be better to flash something that at least includes some relatively up to date security patches?
And how those rootkits are being loaded to phones with outdated firmware? Bundled with the last OS that was flashed or remotely by exploiting security flaws? Not a dev, but curious about it.
It’s generally best to get a phone that receives software updates and security patches for more than 2-3 years. This is because vulnerabilities can be discovered in older hardware that cannot be fully fixed with a software update alone. While updating the OS helps with security at that level, flaws in the underlying hardware may still exist. Additionally, threats can come from various sources like malicious apps, texts, USB devices, or physical access, not just online attacks. Choosing a manufacturer that supports phones longer can help reduce these risks over the life of the device.
It’s generally best to get a phone that receives software updates and security patches for more than 2-3 years.
See first paragraph again, not everybody is as affluent as you’re, look at the problem from the other perspective
Additionally, threats can come from various sources like:
malicious apps,
will take control of the phone from the inside out, nothing will withstand that
texts,
Pegasus will use 0day, nothing to do about that
USB devices, or physical access,
Once somebody have physical access because you’re some POI and not an average Joe, not much you can do
Choosing a manufacturer that supports phones longer can help reduce these risks over the life of the device.
See first paragraph, parenthesis content. Also phones are made with short lifespan on purpose, this gives steady inflow of money for the manufacturers, only few will give you what you want
See first paragraph again, not everybody is as affluent as you’re, look at the problem from the other perspective
There is no blanket advice for which device to use. You will have to look it up yourself. But if you’re using a phone beyond its supported time, then you are vulnerable.
will take control of the phone from the inside out, nothing will withstand that
Nothing can withstand a 0-day attack, but it’s on your manufacturer to prevent a 1460-day attack.
Pegasus will use 0day, nothing to do about that
See above statement.
Once somebody have physical access because you’re some POI and not an average Joe, not much you can do
You can be a random person walking in a busy metro area and happen to get in range of someone who is scanning for a particular device to use a side-channel attack on. You don’t have to be a POI.
See first paragraph, parenthesis content. Also phones are made with short lifespan on purpose, this gives steady inflow of money for the manufacturers, only few will give you what you want
The manufacturers are still responsible for patching their devices. Once they stop doing that, you should know that device can’t be trusted with your privacy and security. This is the minimum baseline standard. If you are trying to extend the life of a device by yourself, and use it as a daily driver, you have decided that your data is free for anyone to have.
100% you are correct.
Shame on the down voters.
Running a phone without firmware and driver security patches is a huge risk, that goes up geometrically the longer the phone is out of support.
Lineageos is great for making older devices useful but they are not secure, and they shouldn’t be used for anything sensitive like money
For the down voters. Imagine I have a time machine and bring a precontact native American to present day. I know this is dangerous, so I make them read every modern medical textbook first. Chances are they are going to catch a fun modern disease rapidly and die. Not because they didn’t have the knowledge, but because their immune system didn’t co-evolve with the threats. Being stuck out of time is in anachronism, but that’s exactly what we’re asking our cell phones to do. We prevent them from co-evolving with current threats, and then expect them to match all the threats in the future…
Ultimately the real solution to a lot of these problems is likely to be a Linux phone OS. It’s something being actively worked on, but it’s still only half baked and I wouldn’t recommend anyone daily drive a Linux phone. Maybe in a few more years it will reach a state where it’s actually usable.
One thing that would help a lot is if some company stepped up to provide a platform agnostic NFC payment solution that worked on both iOS and Android. As far as I’m aware if you want NFC payment you have exactly one choice depending on your OS, and both Apple and Google brick NFC if you root your device.
I really want to use my PinePhone Pro, but it’s been in a box since the week I bought it.
I thought I was going to start hacking around, but then I didn’t have the time. It has everything I want from a phone, except for software.
Yup, I’ve been on the fence about buying one since the launch of the OG Pinephone. But I kept waiting until the software support for the things I need arrived (MMS and decent battery life), and that still seems to be unresolved.
I will hopefully have time to hack on it sometime in the next year or two, so I’ll probably get one eventually. Then again, maybe I’ll just ignore the problem until they release an update or something (would be awesome to get a new SOC with better power saving features).
PostmarketOS devs have made huge improvements over the past year. Now it can be used for daily driving. Some functions do not work simply due to the lack of drivers.
I like /e/OS, but the app lounge bothers me a lot. There is no uninstall button and it is not possible to add Fdroid repos… So I have Fdroid installed in addition to it.
I do not see an added value as if I had the aurora store installed + Fdroid.
IMO, the best addition of e/OS compared to lineage is clearly the tracker /ad blocker app.
Unless it has changed the app lounge is just a different frontend for Aurora store.
It has a confidentiality notation system based on exodus privacy. It makes it more visible than on the aurora store. It has the possibility to install app from fdroid, well, at least from the main repo as it is not possible to add more.
There is a high chance that they forked the aurora store, as, most (if not all) of their app are based on open source app. (but if so… why did they remove the option to uninstall app…).
Their app “maps” is just magic earth with an other name and icon.
edit : phrasing
I think the greatest hindrance to /e/ is the fact that so few devices are supported. The article lists Fairphone as a supported device but that doesn’t retail in my country. Most Chinese OEMs (that form the bulk in my nation) won’t be supported by it. I have had a Nokia and a Samsung but even those two models are nope. One would need to go with the express purpose of installing alternative OS’s and then purchase supported phones like Pixel probably, if they wanna indulge in this. But normal people aren’t gonna do this. They are going to purchase the phone that fits the price vs performance ratio for them rather than alternative OS criterion.
It officially supports 250 variants including many going over a decade back. If one were to include all smartphone models/variants released during the previous decade, it won’t even hit the 10 % mark.
I like that they offer options for people to contribute builds, as opposed to LineageOS that just says, “Your device isn’t supported? Lol, that sucks, die in a fire.”
No I’m serious they are not much friendlier about it than that: https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/unknown/
I’ve brought it up before with /e/, that because it’s based in Europe it tends to focus on the European market, IMO too much so. Lots of Europe-exclusive phones supported, barely any US-available phones that support tech like 5G (which is not available in Europe). If you want 5G in the US, you’re pretty much stuck with the Pixel or the Fairphone, and like you said, you also won’t find the Fairphone in a US store (though you can order one from /e/'s website in the US). While I did buy a Murena One (which is a cheap Chinese OEM) in the short time they were selling them in the US market on their website a couple years ago and I’m using it now, good luck finding a US carrier that will support it (T-Mobile was the only one that would) or a repair shop that will touch it if it breaks. I’ve dropped it a couple times and have a large area of dead pixels on the bottom of the screen, but nobody can get a replacement screen for it.
tech like 5G (which is not available in Europe}
wtf are you talking about
Huh? We in Netherlands have 5G
Yeah, it’s been pretty universal in the UK for at least the last couple of years. Not sure where this idea came from.
I would definitely try it, but all the phones I’ve been looking at recently don’t have any support whatsoever for any of those types of custom OS’s. No Lineage, no anything. All because they’re not flagship models and are more budget friendly phones (and have what I’m looking for: headphone jack and SD slot).
Can someone help me understand why headphone jacks and SD card slots are so important to people? All new phones have audio connections built into the USB-C port, and have enough onboard storage not to require any amount of expansion.
Is the lack of these features really a dealbreaker? I have a Pixel, with custom ROM, and consider myself a power user, and never miss those features at all.
SD cards were nice back when phones had like 16GB of onboard storage and you needed more space for apps and media, but with 512GB onboard storage and the ability to use cloud storage at Wifi 7 speeds, I couldn’t imagine needing more.
Integrated headphone jacks were nice before the vast majority of people used Bluetooth headphones. Even then, a tiny adapter lets me connect any of my old wired headphones or aux cables up no problem.
We’re 18 years into the smartphone age. When the first smartphones came out in 2006, microsd cards were only 2 years old. Now they’re 20 years old. Are we really surprised that this feature is no longer standard?
The 3.5mm headphone jack has been around since the 1950’s, and adapters have been required for tons of audio applications for even longer than that. Do we really need a 70-year-old port integrated into new phones?
[ confirmation bias at play. you have switched to bluetooth. it meets or exceeds all your needs. you don’t see much public indication to the contrary. you figure bluetooth is the best. ]
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simplicity the cable just works. no configuration. no pairing .un pairing, figuring why it worked yesterday
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Audio quality - bluetooth is lossy. we just were given AptX lossless in 2021 ( another confirmation bias ) “Sounds great to me” “I can’t hear the difference”.
2 things are both possibly true though: I can’t hear the difference. Other people hear a big difference. this seems impossible to some people. As if their senses are the apogee of human sense. -
lag. new codecs lower latency, but lag lag lag. You couldn’t possibly use your device as a synth/music instrument and ‘play’ the lag is far to great. Same with games.
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whats the big deal. This is a bias for the plug users - would it hurt to keep it? we’ve always had it. The work is already done. Its already baked in the cake, why you gotta take it out?
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Investment - I have really good headphones. I have really good earbuds. Yes there are adapters but they are finicky exactly when you want them to just work. They inevitably break. They often downgrade the sound - I have 3 usb to audio adapters for android that all hiss for no reason.
The issue is that when the marketers are selling us a ‘clean vision of the future’ they purposefully gloss over the things they are taking away. Then they paint the people who feel pain because of the change as neanderthals who wouldn’t know better if it bit them. When they do know better. They had better (for them) and progress made it worse (for them). To which the marketers generally say - you should be someone else.
Lol @ this barely coherent drivel being up voted.
Lol harder at the butthurt 3.5mm fetishists who downvote simple answers to their unbelievably petty and stupid criticisms.
Lol hardest at every dipshit who mentioned Bluetooth and didn’t like when the adapters were pointed out as the basic solution to their whining.
“We don’t want solutions we want to bitch”
simplicity the cable just works. no configuration. no pairing .un pairing, figuring why it worked yesterday
Use the adapter plug as mentioned. You can even just leave it on your normal headphones if you only use 1 pair!
whats the big deal. This is a bias for the plug users - would it hurt to keep it?
Hurts waterproofing, phone slimness and design, etc. again, you can just use an adapter to have all the stuff you’re whining about back.
Investment - I have really good headphones. I have really good earbuds. Yes there are adapters but they are finicky exactly when you want them to just work
No, you’re either talking out of your ass or buying the cheapest possible cord and being shocked when it doesn’t work right. My $8 adapter has worked for 4 years no problem driving over-ear headphones no issues.
they purposefully gloss over the things they are taking away
Nothing was taken away. It’s literally just combined with another port now.
If you want to be mad at anyone: be mad at the people making headphones with 3.5mm jacks rather than USB-C, as they’re the ones using an outdated port.
Ok great, let me charge my phone while I listen to music, oh wait now I need another adaptor.
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Literally just get that kind of charger. That $8 one I have is one.
All you weird-ass fetishists for an old connector keep having the most child-lrvel intelligence “gotchas”
Use the adapter plug as mentioned.
Type C can’t spin 360°. I have a 90-degree 3.5mm jack, which doesn’t create a risk of breaking the port, so I can put my phone in my pocket in any position.
Hurts waterproofing, phone slimness and design
Check out the Sony Xperia 10. It’s the smallest phone on the market with a 3.5mm jack, micro SD slot, 5000 mAh battery, and IP68 rating.
Nothing was taken away. It’s literally just combined with another port now.
Haha, remember 2000s, when most phones were using proprietary connector for both charging and headphones output? Everyone hated that stuff.
Type C can’t spin 360°
Headphone jack portion of the adapter can
Remember the 2000s
Yeah, because everyone having a different charger is the same thing as an actually UNIVERSAL connector.
I mean that phones had combo port both for charging and headphones. Using adapters was annoying. And if you saying that 3.5mm is obsolete than why newest Macbooks have 3.5mm port?
Nothing was taken away. It’s literally just combined with another port now. That’s not how either Apple or Samsung adapters work. The converters to a bit more than change the shape of the plug.
These are all great rebuttals to arguments I never made. Top tier strawmanning 🏆.
Anyway, there’s a headphone port built into your USB-C port. Use any headphones you want.
I didn’t respond to _any arguments you made. I thought you posed the question ‘why?’
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Just wait until you find out some of us still want FM on our phones.
The thing with SD cards is that there’s a crapton of phones with 64/128 internals and still don’t have one. I for one wouldn’t really need one if I had 512, but to get to 512 you usually hace to pay a huge premium, because all major manufacturers have adopted the apple model of upcharging for storage. And frankly in the age of affordable 1tb SD cards I should’t have to pay hundreds to get a measly 256 or 512 gb of storage.
The jack is also a manufactured problem ( also pioneered by apple, iirc ). Why would I give up my existing wired headphones to replace them with expensive sub-standard battery operated ones. Its especially ironic for manufacturers who do a lot of greenwashing. The usb-c adapter is an ok compromise though, and I for one am coming around to that l because you can only find jacks on niche or crap phones these days.
I’m not sure why you brought the “tech is old” argument because frankly it doesn’t make sense for these two.
FM on a phone is a banger. I used to have an old Nokia with a FM transmitter as well.
To be honest, the FM transmitter was more reliable and easier to set up on a random car with no aux than Bluetooth was.
Why would I give up my existing wired headphones to replace them with expensive sub-standard battery operated ones
You don’t, you use an adapter and move on with life.
I seriously do not understand people who die on this hill. The 3.5 Jack is dead in electronics and the only people making the transition painful are the HEADPHONE manufacturers who refuse to wire a USB-C instead of a now-outded plug.
This happens every time an obsolete connector gets phased out: cheap manufacturers keep using it well beyond the reasonable time to swap out, leaving the end users who fear change to cling on even longer for no good reason
I can’t speak to the sd card situation but I still prefer a headphone jack over Bluetooth. I would argue that the vast majority of people (as you put it) use Bluetooth headphones simply because they were forced into it.
Bluetooth is neat and all but it’s also super old (28 years!). It’s older than smart phones and sd cards. But age aside, it’s also not reliable. You cannot guarantee it will work everytime you need it. Whereas you could reasonably expect a headphone jack to work everytime. So replacing old reliable with old not-reliable doesn’t seem right from a logical perspective.
My only other concern is convenience. But wired and wireless both have pros and cons and I just consider them more or less equal.
Bluetooth also introduces significant latency (noticeable for gaming) and lower audio quality. What a bad deal.
Audio quality reduction might not be noticeable to the average user, as long as they don’t use the mic
I feel like everyone keeps arguing with me about “Wired vs. Bluetooth”, but that has not been my argument.
My argument is “what’s the big deal about using a USB-C to 3.5mm adapter?”
You still get wired headphones. I have a Pixel 7 Pro and use my Sennheisers on them. I do not understand the problem. The feature isn’t missing, and the adapter is like $5 and has no downsides. For a couple extra bucks I got a Power+Aux adapter, and now I can plug it into my sound system at home and play it wired while it charges.
You mentioned two situations where you need additional adapters (to use headphones and aux output) but a 3.5mm jack would completely mitigate the need for them.
I love how anyone with half a fucking brain gets down voted.
Rather than point out where youre wrong thet just keep yelling about Bluetooth and downvotig once they realize they’ve run out of “gotchas”
Anyone fucking stupid enough to think the 3.5mm Jack is a good thing deserves the disappointment they feel every time a device doesn’t have own, tbh, bring it on themselves
I love how anyone with
half a fucking brainpoor conversational skills and an inability to see things from someone else’s perspective gets down voted.Try talking to people online as though they were in the same room as you, IRL. If you’re already doing that, I have to ask, how many offline friends do you have?
I have been, I don’t respect people who want things to stay the way they were because they refuse to try new things.
People with very polite and normal responses were gettug downvoters just because they offered solutions that can’t be dismissed easily, so downvoting was done instead.
It allllways comes to the civility argument when people know their position is dog shit, too. Cute.
I don’t have a position on cell phone interfaces and hadn’t planed to give one. No skin in this game, really, though it’s clearly a contentious issue!
I just can’t help but notice when people are being terrible conversation partners, mostly. Me finding you to be an asshole has nothing to do with how I feel about cell phone ports.
Anyone fucking stupid enough to think the 3.5mm Jack is a good thing deserves the disappointment they feel every time a device doesn’t have own, tbh, bring it on themselves
Are you 12?
I think you might have half a brain. Me and the gentleman on the other side of the argument are having a conversation right now so please go away.
Sorry, that’s not how public forums work.
Don’t like me replying to someone else? You can fuck off, you know?
SD cards are awesome, because a high quality 256GB SD card costs about $30, while a 256GB memory upgrade is at least $100 with no option to transfer when you get a new phone.
Cloud storage is pretty expensive and only as fast as your internet speed is, so for a lot of people that is not really that feasible. Especially considering that some have data caps as well.
3.5mm jack is just more comfortable to use for a lot of people, especially when they have multiple source devices and want to switch between them. I have BT headphones and it is way easier and more reliable to just replug the wire than to go through the BT disconnect reconnect dance.
The issue with dongles is that you’ll have to find the correct aux dongle, some phones support analog passthrough, others require active dongles and so on
The issue with dongles is that you’ll have to find the correct aux dongle, some phones support analog passthrough, others require active dongles and so on
This is a pretty easy to overcome issue. There really isn’t a “and so on” here, there are only two types of adapters: active and passive. Nearly every new phone without a 3.5mm port needs an active adapter (check the spec sheet), which has the DAC in it.
This is fine, you were going to use a DAC regardless, the only difference is that it exists outside of your phone instead of soldered to the main board.
Probably best to buy from your phone manufacturer to ensure you’re getting a quality DAC, but I am not aware of any counterfeiting, supply, or quality issues for DACs. Quality Cirruslogic DACs are plentiful and cost manufacturers $1-3/piece, so even the AliExpress adapters are probably just fine.
I feel like people never complain that cases and screen protectors only work on one make/model of phone, but then they get upset that they have to figure out which of two adapters they need. You’re already dealing with a lot of device-exclusivity owning any smartphone, the headphone adapter seems like a trivial detail.
I personally love having extra storage that I can upgrade to whenever I want on a mobile device. Allows me to have things like all my music and text documents on a separate device so I don’t have to worry about most of my internal storage being taken up by these files (mostly music). Local music files are also pretty important to me because I don’t always like being connected to the Internet just to listen to my favorite songs.
Also, there isn’t a single online cloud storage solution that I know of that I trust. I’d set myself up my own, but I trust myself even less for things like that. Last thing I want is either me setting one up and getting my files deleted by random script kiddies finding a way in or for a pre-existing cloud storage provider to suddenly delete my files because they’re updating the service so people on lower tiers get less storage.
With headphones, I personally just love the ability to listen at any point without having to worry whether the headphones I’m using need charged. I personally don’t love the idea of getting a little dongle to connect to my phone just for plugging in wired headphones because that’s just another thing I could easily lose. Similar reason to why I hate short cords in general: easier for me to lose, as has happened plenty of times in the past.
If you have 512gb of storage I think you likely paid more for your phone than I have for my last 3 phones combined going back 5 or 6 years.
Decent wired earbuds are $20. Bluetooth earbuds in that price range are terrible and uncomfortable.
Some of us can’t or won’t spend lots of money on disposable tech like phones.
You consider yourself a power user, I’m just a guy who needs a phone to phone, text and do a few internet tasks like casual games for work downtime.
I don’t have anything against people who like having the latest and greatest tech but I don’t have that urge or see the need in some cases. I generally don’t like being pushed into spending more money with no appreciable gain in functionality.
I guess if you’re just using your phone for a few tiny things, the lack of an SD card should be no problem. What good is tons of storage if you’re just “texting and doing a few internet tasks like casual games”?
And dedicated headphone port or not, you can always plug wired headphones in with an adapter. The port is still there, it’s just a modern port, not one from the 50’s.
Still waiting on a real answer to why these dated features matter so much. Sure, my flagship phone may be more powerful than anything you need, but that doesn’t fit the narrative that these phones are missing critical features that you apparently need, especially not in terms of storage capacity or accessory compatibility.
These things aren’t deal-breakers they’re conveniences for me. It’s easy to transfer stuff to a new phone with an SD card, if your old phones screen dies (has happened to me twice over the years) you can still easily move your stuff over to the new phone.
My last phone only had 64gb of storage. I always have some audio-books and podcasts on my phone for when I go to very rural areas with bad reception like the lake. Up until the phone I bought this year with 256gb I would have been always cramped for space without an SD card.
Why use an adapter if you don’t have to, that’s just one more thing to go wrong or get in the way. I had a pixel for a while and I did use an adapter for my headphones. They were awkwardly placed with the adapter, if the usb port broke because of the headphone adapter being awkwardly placed I couldn’t charge the phone. If I broke a headphone jack I’m just inconvenienced.
I don’t understand why someone being content using older technology bothers you so much that you want them to defend their choices.
Even if the $800-$1000 phones had those features I wouldn’t spend that much on a phone. If only the flagships had those features I’d go without. Thy’re nice to have but not must haves.
Do you also get annoyed with people who play retro games or listen to vinyl records? Do you wonder why people drive classic cars or wear analog watches?
enough onboard storage not to require any amount of expansion
This is just wrong, my man! 128GB are NOT enough to not need expansion! And sure, I can pay the manufacturer 50$ for an extra 128 gig, but for the same money I can buy a 500GB SD card online! And many phones don’t even have the option for this much storage. Why not offer more storage AND an SD card slot?
All new phones have audio connections built into the USB-C port
Yes they have, but now I can’t use my headphones without a shitty adapter anymore. An adapter that can easily get lost! What is the advantage of that?
I can tell you: it’s greed! We can sell you more storage at a premium. Your device storage ain’t enough? We offer cloud based storage for free! Oh, your free x amount of gigabytes is full? We sell you more storage as a subscription! Well, you don’t need storage anyways, because everyone streams their stuff today, don’t they? (Also subscription models)
Your phone doesn’t have a 3.5mm jack anymore and you can’t use your headphones anymore? Buy our adapters for very little money (but that’s basically 5$ in extra profit per sold phone). Or, you know, bluetooth headphones! They are more convenient anyways, because they are wireless. Oh, you just need to charge them every few hours and the batteries in them are dead after ~2 years, that means we can sell you another pair for 150$! And god forbid you lose one of the tiny suckers, that’s gone be 150$ to replace them.
FUCK THAT!!1!
I love /e/OS, but it’s not better. I’ve had a lot of issues ranging from GPS being inaccurate, MMS not working, and most annoyingly : the play store alternative works (app lounge) works 1% of the time…
Which version and phone are you on ? I’m on “t” version on a Oneplus 7 et I have none of these issues.
I first installed the “s” version and got annoying bugs, then switched to the “t” one and everything was OK. I now all the version aren’t available on every devices, I hope you can switch on a more stable one.
Oh I see that there are “t” versions which are much more up to date! (2.1, latest in 2024-05). I didn’t know about these versions, thank you so much.
Can you confirm that I’ll need to wipe everything to switch from R to T? Or is there a way to bridge to that version without data loss?
That’s great !
R and T should have a different android base, so, It would be safer to wipe everything while upgrading.
1.8-r, which seems to be the official version
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