We’re the good guys, they’re the bad guys. Isn’t it?
Oh dear, someone’s mad that others rejected their fascism again
Whenever someone posts this sort of vague “people aren’t tolerating my ideas” post, nine-times-outta-ten, the ideas in question are just awful.
10/10 times somebody seethes at the idea of merely listening to ideas that they might dislike or disagree with is some extremist whacko who gets all their information from a heavily vetted and censored echo chambers.
Which ideas? Be specific :)
It literally doesn’t matter. Blocking yourself off from any ideas, no matter how tame or how extreme is something that’s both sad and dangerous. Willful ignorance is a poison. It’s not a sign of purity or strength, it’s a sign of fear and weakness.
Nah, sod off. We’ve fought wars over some of these “ideas”. We don’t need to rehash them until the end of time. We hear more diverse ideas from the diverse people who are allowed to thrive by removing a tiny handful of bigoted opinions.
Why do you want to silence those diverse people and their varied opinions? Are you scared of their ideas? Are you a weak little coward?
you either agree with me, or you’re in the other tribe
Yes… that’s how differing opinions work… they’re different from each other lol.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tribalism
it’s going with the “us vs them” mentality mentioned in the post. and I see you with your self-upvote there, I really love kbin for that transparencyYeah… why wouldn’t you self upvote? At least reddit had that right. Does ANY commenter on a public forum NOT want their comment more visible lol? It’s one of my biggest complaints about any Fediverse instance that actually allows ANY form of visible vote tallying.
I halfway was going to just drop it, but decided to come back and also explain it for any few that happened to trip across this time capsule of a comment years down the line, but see it on lemmy instead of kbin, and them getting confused about what I implied earlier
on some social media sites where you upvote yourself by default, it’s all fine and dandy since that’s the default and everyone already has their own - people looking over messages know it all beforehand and everything is upfront
on somewhere like kbin, where you have to go out of your way to do it, it can come off as manipulation to make a message appear to have a greater consensus than it would otherwise have. the next step up, and in definitely-ethically-dubious territory, is having multiple accounts to upvote yourself to boost your message
early upvotes/downvotes makes others that are quickly passing by a message feel more comfortable piling on one way or the other; group psychology is funky like that. it’s also a way some bad actors social engineer the system to get what they want seen to be seen, while burying others. I’m not saying you’re doing any of that beyond upvoting only yourself, but maybe this all explains a little better on the reasoning about its sketchiness on upvoting yourself on specific social media that don’t give a self upvote by default. It’s not a god-awful thing to do since a single vote is mostly innocuous, but it also isn’t a good look when someone looks into it and spots it
How dare the public not want to hear about us stripping the rights of gays, and trans people? ECHO CHAMBER! I JUST WANT CIVIL DISCUSSION ABOUT HOW BLACK PEOPLE ARE NOTHING BUT THUGS AND RAPISTS AND THEY SHOULD GO BACK TO AFRICA.
How about no dude? Go back to Truth Social and rant there. Nobody wants to hear about your eugenics, how a female comic artist hurts your browsing experience and you’re too contrarian not to spew misogynist rhetoric.
Progressives and most real moderates know better now. It’s all bad-faith arguments and dog whistles. The paradox of tolerance is real and people need to stop platforming insanity.
God nothing is more annoying than brain damaged American progressives who think they’re intellectuals. Even if we ignore your strawman, the very idea that there are people who are close minded enough to actually actively refuse to even be exposed to any ideas that they might dislike or disagree with is insane. Keep in mind, the tolerance paradox says that intolerant ideas shouldn’t be tolerated, it doesn’t say that you should go full 1984 censoring and controlling information and turning authoritarian on anything you deem intolerant. The whole point of the paradox is to demonstrate that if a society wants to remain free and democratic, then it needs to oppose intolerance and authoritarianism in all its forms… via democratic processes. Otherwise, it’s another society that has become corrupted. The principles of liberty and democracy, as well as their universality, should never be abandoned.
I hate you. I despise you so deeply that I will use all my capital to move the democratic process. I am going to use the freedom you have given me to manipulate everyone into thinking you are the scum of the earth, unworthy of existence. I will demonize your actions on every turn. I will destroy you, your culture, and your very existentce. I just have to yell it long and hard enough and people will flock to my voice that I have been given on your platforms. And you will do nothing about it, even when you manage to expose my lies. It is you that is the cause of all our problems we face. Soon enough people just repeat what I say and believe me over anything you might utter. I have just convinced people of what you truly are. And their vote will sign your death warrant.
My point still stands. You can’t use hate, ignorance, and authoritarianism to defeat hate, ignorance, and authoritarianism. The only thing that will end up happening is you turning hateful, ignorant, and authoritarian. We have already seen this happen time and time again. It’s time for people to learn from history for once instead of just repeating it. Censorship NEVER works, authoritarianism NEVER works. The very reason why the people you described ever get into power is because of people like you who fall into a brainless cycle of purity tests, arrogance, and exploitation of power. You want to see bigots stop being bigots? Try talking to them. Not talk down to them, not convince them of anything, just try to understand why they think the way they do, how they came to be, and how they perceive the world. By understanding them you can find some common ground and from there you can introduce to them alternative ideas like tolerance, justice, coexistence, and peace. You can’t ban bigots, you can’t censor them, you can’t genocide them, and no amount of power abused will make them go away. Talking them is the only way. Keep mind talking to them isn’t a sign of weakness or a concession. Virtue signaling means fuck all when it makes things worse. Talking to people, having them exposed to new ideas and views, and treating people you don’t like (even if they’re vile) as humans is how a black man in the US managed to convince dozens of KKK klansmen into giving up their robes.
Because those people who gave up their robes saw that they were misguided and were open to new ideas. But some still have kept their hearts closed because some are just unwilling to have their convictions changed. KKK is still a thing, after all that talking. Raceism is still an issue, even when we tried giving them space.
Sometimes it is more than misguidence. Sometimes people just hate, and grudge. And when these people are given power they are able to spread their hate and misguide once more. And then we might have another Nazi Germany, where it will take a war to have it corrected. We didn’t get the Nazi’s to stop with just words. Are we able to have China stop doing it now, with just words? Are words helping in Palestina?
And in this day and age of the internet, even when we show those people the world that they can access. Show them how misguided their hatred is. They still choose to hate.
These words I wrote are in their hearts. Outside they tell sweet veiled words like ‘we must protect our children’ and ‘they are taking your jobs’. They will convince people against all facts, that the others chose this. That something genetic, is chosen. Never will they tell in those clear words what they truly want, because any sane moral person would see it for what it is.
At some point they manage to convince their followers that they are the truth, that anyone trying to guide them away to sanity is lying to them. And then the cycle completes and new unchangable hate-ist is born to spread the infection. See anti-vaxxers, see Q, see any conspiracy group that convinces their members everyone else is lying.
So, would you rather have a tyranny where people are allowed to just be. But where ideas of raceism and exclusion is censored.
Or a tyranny of the hateful that will one day knock on your door for telling the lies of inclusion?
I used to feel that way but man, after the 20th time in a row that someone either calling for nuance or unity with questionable individuals ended up being some sort of malefactor with an evil agenda has me completely burnt on thinking that way. You just have to accept that some people are irredeemable and not worth dealing with, and replace them with those who are actually out there for your best interests.
