Pope Francis condemned the “very strong, organised, reactionary attitude” in the US church and said Catholic doctrine allows for change over time.

Pope Francis has blasted the “backwardness” of some conservatives in the US Catholic Church, saying they have replaced faith with ideology and that a correct understanding of Catholic doctrine allows for change over time.

Francis’ comments were an acknowledgment of the divisions in the US Catholic Church, which has been split between progressives and conservatives who long found support in the doctrinaire papacies of St John Paul II and Benedict XVI, particularly on issues of abortion and same-sex marriage.

  • Szymon@lemmy.ca
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    1 year ago

    These christians will drop their Pope before they drop their politics

    • ImplyingImplications@lemmy.ca
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      1 year ago

      They already have. Only Roman Catholics really care what the Pope has to say. There are far more Baptist, Methodist, Evangelical, Pentecostal, and Presbyterian in the US than Catholics.

      • TWeaK@lemm.ee
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        1 year ago

        The Pope is the head of the Roman Catholic church, it’s always been the case that only Catholics really care about what he says.

        • gowan@reddthat.com
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          1 year ago

          *Roman Catholics as multiple churches claim catholicity that are not associated with The Vatican. For example the Anglican Church claims catholicity.

          • TWeaK@lemm.ee
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            1 year ago

            The Anglican Church is Protestant. Pretty sure they don’t like being called Catholic, they had a whole thing about that.

            • gowan@reddthat.com
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              1 year ago

              Catholicity is unrelated to Protestantism. Catholicity means the church claims an unbroken line from the apostle Peter meaning they are the “real” church

            • laylawashere44@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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              1 year ago

              No, Catholic just means universal. This most Christian denominations claim to the the Catholic, aka, Universal Church. In other words, they mean to say they are the correct denomination.

              • severien@lemmy.world
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                1 year ago

                In normal conversation, Catholic Church equals Roman Catholic Church.

                See e.g. wiki:

                The Catholic Church, also known as the Roman Catholic Church, …

                • laylawashere44@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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                  1 year ago

                  That doesn’t change the fact that the Anglican Church also considers itself the Catholic Church.

                  The Act of Supremacy 1558 renewed the breach, and the Elizabethan Settlement charted a course enabling the English church to describe itself as both Reformed and Catholic.

      • kent_eh@lemmy.ca
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        1 year ago

        For reasons I can’t explain, many of those denominations don’t even recognize the catholic church as being Christian.

        • gaiussabinus@lemmy.world
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          The problem is much more fundamental than this. I have repeatedly had to explain to adults, in many different contexts the subset/superset relationship. People do not know that you can be part of a superset that describes all things in a subset. For some reason you are able to graduate high school without every actually figuring this out

        • deadbeef79000@lemmy.nz
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          1 year ago

          That’s always boggled my mind.

          I had many childhood baptist friends who claimed with disgust that the Catholic Church isn’t Christian.

          I just can’t see the reason (there isn’t any) other than needing a conservative out group.

          • abraxas@sh.itjust.works
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            I just can’t see the reason (there isn’t any) other than needing a conservative out group.

            The reason is simple, actually. The Protestant revolution was ostensibly started with Martin Luther advertising that the pope was the antichrist.

            Protestantism was basically the practice of declaring Catholicism to be a false Church. Then it evolved and they got more cordial. After 300 years of bloodshed

            • jarfil@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              Technically, at the time of Martin Luther, the Roman Church was corrupt AF, so he wasn’t totally wrong. It kind of still is, but hey, who’s counting.

              • abraxas@sh.itjust.works
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                1 year ago

                This is a true statement. But glass houses and stones. Let’s not forget he wrote the infamous “On the Jews and Their Lies”, and started supporting their persecution and outright murder. Many believe that his rhetoric directly caused the antisemitic attitudes of the Nazi Party. The aforementioned book was incredibly popular among Nazis.

                And the Lutherans are smart to denounce that book. Catholics could learn from a religion deciding it actually did stupid things and fixing itself.

              • deadbeef79000@lemmy.nz
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                I just didn’t think it was any more or less corrupt as any other Church.

                It all seems like an unironic no-true-yorkshirrman comedy sketch.

                When I was in the Catholic Church they abused us 17 hours a day!

                That’s nothing! When I was in the Protestant Church they abused us 27 hours a day and killed us before bed time.

                Etc.

                • jarfil@lemmy.world
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                  I feel like Martin Luther was an idealist, an innocent “true believer” who got shocked when he saw the harsh reality of what was going on in Rome.

                  Then he got his reform, established a new Church… and that’s where he went wrong, because sooner or later Churches gonna Church.

        • agent_flounder@lemmy.one
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          I’m pretty sure the reverse is true.

          There are some differences in the details of each denominations beliefs enough to mark some Christians as not real Christians. If only God could just make an announcement over the PA to clear things up…

          Related: How many denominations only allow their own denomination to take Communion?

    • bitsplease@lemmy.ml
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      That ship has already sailed - I was just with my conservative uncle this last weekend when he complained that the current pope is “woke”

      To these people, their political ideology is their religion

      • agent_flounder@lemmy.one
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        1 year ago

        Absolutely agree. I am certain ifwe’re real and appeared in person and spouted half the stuff attributed to him in the gospel they would call him “woke” too.

        • bitsplease@lemmy.ml
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          Absolutely no doubt. Kind of surprised no one has done a video series where you anonomize Jesus’s teachings, then read them back to conservative Christians and ask what they think about them

          The results would be hilarious, no doubt

    • Bri Guy @sopuli.xyz
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      does anyone know off the top of their head how/when Christianity became so tightly associated with the Republican party? No way it was always so extreme in US history

        • sndmn@lemmy.ca
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          1 year ago

          My favourite bumper sticker ever said: The moral majority is neither

      • atempuser23@lemmy.world
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        Having lived though it in the 1990’s there was a marked turn in the politicizing of Christianity. There was a rise of mega churches and politicians who worked to make churches align to the Republican Party for government assistance. The money for what was welfare was shuffled to churches to take up services that once were secular.

        The whole tenor of conversion changed. It just got mean and only got worse from there.

        • Bri Guy @sopuli.xyz
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          Interesting, I’m assuming that politicians who bought into this evangelical pandering benefited from this by getting votes/support?

          • atempuser23@lemmy.world
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            Over time. It was more of a mutual benefit the government gives money to the church and the politicians got votes from the churches. At one time there were a lot more social services, not enough, but much more.

    • AllonzeeLV@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      They dropped the Jesus Christ of the New Testament half a century ago, and even then they pretended he was somehow as white as mayonnaise, so why not drop his earthly mouthpiece?

    • _Sc00ter@lemmy.ml
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      Honestly, I consider that a win. A huge reason I left the catholic faith wasn’t because of the religion itself, but because of the people who claimed to follow Jesus but in practice did nothing like Jesus.