The “healthcare” system isn’t broken, it works perfectly.
You’re just mistaken about what its purpose is.
It’s one of the most beautiful examples of capitalism working as intended: When you’re hurting or dying, your demand for healthcare is unlimited, and you’re in no position to compare prices or services, so cost is determined by the maximum amount that can be squeezed out of you during your remaining lifetime.
To spell out the point here - healthcare isn’t the point of the healthcare industry under capitalism - profit is. Any healthcare delivered is going to be the bare minimum required to separate you from your money.
I’ve worked in hospital systems since I graduated from college. There has been one meeting (out of all the meetings!) that I have absolutely never forgotten due to something that was brought up.
They thought it was super cool to talk about how much cash our new surgical center was bringing in. I know it was small in the scheme of things, but in my head a hospital should be super happy when they don’t have to perform surgery on a person. They shouldn’t be happy to perform surgery so that they can make money.
For me it was a quarterly town hall with hospital leadership and they kept pushing “we are a business…” and all I could think was “no, we are a hospital…” because being a business is indicative of being profit motivated. I know, I know, that’s exactly what it is, but it just really bothered me to hear that line over and over.
When you have an actual functioning competitive market the money you bring in correlates with the value of the service you provide, so it makes perfect sense to be happy about the money the new surgical center is bringing in. That means it’s useful.
The problem is that the health care market is regulated and subsidized in so many ways, many of them conflicting with each other, that competition is very limited and price discovery is reduced to “whatever the patient (and their insurance) can afford to pay” since they can’t go anywhere else. Fix that and there won’t be any reason for hospital owners or employees to feel guilty about making money.
Most healthcare systems in the US are non-profits. To run a non-profit, you still need revenue to operate no matter where you are or what you do. They have to pay their own bills just like anyone else.
Bring on the downvotes. Then go ahead and take all of your local hospital’s funding and see what happens.
Edit: maybe people misunderstood my point? People are replying and saying that profit shouldn’t be part of healthcare. Yes, but that doesn’t solve the problem of funding. Every hospital gets money. Pick your favorite country, the hospital still gets money.
You’re largely right about nonprofits not contributing enough, but that’s a systemic issue that reflects the poor quality of the system and how it’s funded in the first place, such as the way we allow insurance companies to take huge chunks of our money.
Yeah that’s not what it’s about at all. Hospitals need funding. Hospitals do not need a profit motive. Remove the profit motive and socialize the costs of healthcare. Just like every civilized country does it.
You say I’m wrong and then you go on to reiterate my exact point about money. Hospitals require funding and they are funded in every developed nation. Nonprofits do not have a profit motive. They argue with your insurance company for more money, just like every other developed nation, regardless of whether it is directly single payer or a system like Germany or Japan, which largely rely on private companies.
you’re arguing for profit to remain a focus within the healthcare industry. That’s anti-people, and why everyone is downvoting you. Everyone knows a hospital requires funding, we just want our tax dollars to pay it.
The short answer is no. You may stop reading now as the next sentence is similar to the last one.
If it wasn’t clear to you, I’m busy dismissing your opinion as uninformed and without merit. It is clearly, objectively wrong, and the idea that you deserve a voice in this discussion with the level of information you own currently? Patently ridiculous.
Your sense of self worth would be admirable is it weren’t so misplaced.
It’s wrong that hospitals need money to operate? Bud, I got a master’s in this… which hospital are you aware of that doesn’t pay for electricity or pay its providers with money? Talk about patently ridiculous.
Apologies in advance, my app doesn’t seem to want to show me what context this is in, so I might be off base in my reply, but yeah, that’s a good solution. The problem is that in the USA, if you raise taxes by .0001% people throw temper tantrums. They’d rather pay out the ass for private insurance. I know people on Lemmy don’t feel that way, but that’s how Americans are.
One of the most perfect parts of how powerful lobbies constructed it is that, unaffordable as it is, there IS no free market for care, you are forced into networks and PPOs, etc. so if someone DID offer a better price outside of your consumer funnel(sorry, insurance plan), your insurer would just deny the claim at the providers standard 20x cost price for uninsured procedures. Also, 100% price obfuscation so comparison shopping is impossible. It is end-game capitalism.
The “healthcare” system isn’t broken, it works perfectly.
You’re just mistaken about what its purpose is.
It’s one of the most beautiful examples of capitalism working as intended: When you’re hurting or dying, your demand for healthcare is unlimited, and you’re in no position to compare prices or services, so cost is determined by the maximum amount that can be squeezed out of you during your remaining lifetime.
To spell out the point here - healthcare isn’t the point of the healthcare industry under capitalism - profit is. Any healthcare delivered is going to be the bare minimum required to separate you from your money.
I’ve worked in hospital systems since I graduated from college. There has been one meeting (out of all the meetings!) that I have absolutely never forgotten due to something that was brought up.
They thought it was super cool to talk about how much cash our new surgical center was bringing in. I know it was small in the scheme of things, but in my head a hospital should be super happy when they don’t have to perform surgery on a person. They shouldn’t be happy to perform surgery so that they can make money.
For me it was a quarterly town hall with hospital leadership and they kept pushing “we are a business…” and all I could think was “no, we are a hospital…” because being a business is indicative of being profit motivated. I know, I know, that’s exactly what it is, but it just really bothered me to hear that line over and over.
When you have an actual functioning competitive market the money you bring in correlates with the value of the service you provide, so it makes perfect sense to be happy about the money the new surgical center is bringing in. That means it’s useful.
The problem is that the health care market is regulated and subsidized in so many ways, many of them conflicting with each other, that competition is very limited and price discovery is reduced to “whatever the patient (and their insurance) can afford to pay” since they can’t go anywhere else. Fix that and there won’t be any reason for hospital owners or employees to feel guilty about making money.
Most healthcare systems in the US are non-profits. To run a non-profit, you still need revenue to operate no matter where you are or what you do. They have to pay their own bills just like anyone else.
Bring on the downvotes. Then go ahead and take all of your local hospital’s funding and see what happens.
Edit: maybe people misunderstood my point? People are replying and saying that profit shouldn’t be part of healthcare. Yes, but that doesn’t solve the problem of funding. Every hospital gets money. Pick your favorite country, the hospital still gets money.
Non-profits need revenue, true. But many non-profit hospitals are not acting like nonprofits. Here’s a NYT opinion piece about it
Here’s an actual study on the issue.
You’re largely right about nonprofits not contributing enough, but that’s a systemic issue that reflects the poor quality of the system and how it’s funded in the first place, such as the way we allow insurance companies to take huge chunks of our money.
Non-Profit or Non-Taxed? - Economic Update with Richard Wolff
Yeah that’s not what it’s about at all. Hospitals need funding. Hospitals do not need a profit motive. Remove the profit motive and socialize the costs of healthcare. Just like every civilized country does it.
You say I’m wrong and then you go on to reiterate my exact point about money. Hospitals require funding and they are funded in every developed nation. Nonprofits do not have a profit motive. They argue with your insurance company for more money, just like every other developed nation, regardless of whether it is directly single payer or a system like Germany or Japan, which largely rely on private companies.
you’re arguing for profit to remain a focus within the healthcare industry. That’s anti-people, and why everyone is downvoting you. Everyone knows a hospital requires funding, we just want our tax dollars to pay it.
You’re putting words in my mouth. I never said that. I said anything needs money to run, even a nationalized system or a single payer system.
Removed by mod
Did you have an actual response to the fact that hospitals need funding?
The short answer is no. You may stop reading now as the next sentence is similar to the last one.
If it wasn’t clear to you, I’m busy dismissing your opinion as uninformed and without merit. It is clearly, objectively wrong, and the idea that you deserve a voice in this discussion with the level of information you own currently? Patently ridiculous.
Your sense of self worth would be admirable is it weren’t so misplaced.
It’s wrong that hospitals need money to operate? Bud, I got a master’s in this… which hospital are you aware of that doesn’t pay for electricity or pay its providers with money? Talk about patently ridiculous.
Just have the state pay for it?
Apologies in advance, my app doesn’t seem to want to show me what context this is in, so I might be off base in my reply, but yeah, that’s a good solution. The problem is that in the USA, if you raise taxes by .0001% people throw temper tantrums. They’d rather pay out the ass for private insurance. I know people on Lemmy don’t feel that way, but that’s how Americans are.
A masters in…?
Healthcare administration. Why did you dodge my question? Where do hospitals not pay for their electricity or pay their workers money?
I want to downvote you simply because i hate this truth. I hate it, so, so much.
One of the most perfect parts of how powerful lobbies constructed it is that, unaffordable as it is, there IS no free market for care, you are forced into networks and PPOs, etc. so if someone DID offer a better price outside of your consumer funnel(sorry, insurance plan), your insurer would just deny the claim at the providers standard 20x cost price for uninsured procedures. Also, 100% price obfuscation so comparison shopping is impossible. It is end-game capitalism.
That’s not how capitalism is meant to work at all.
Its obviously and uncompetitive market and something needs to change.
History shows us that capitalism inevitably tends towards monopolies