They have been gaining a reputation for poor writing, ‘wheadonesque’ if you know the term. Some lowlights on the game Forspoken that they worked on being a recent funny example. I don’t like them because I do find the writing bad, but some people don’t like them for their politics.
They are contractor writers, if a company is using such services for their games instead of hiring their own staff writers, then they are not that interested in quality.
IMO that one works because of how little character each actual character has by design. Dumb jock is dumb and jocky, stoner is stoned, virgin is timid. It’s a play on the lack of real character that mid to low budget horror movies often have.
It’s a great movie but I do find when Wheadon tries to do anything else, it just simmers down to kitchy one-liners that elicit a mild chuckle and nothing else, and that gets old very quickly.
Speaking as a huge fan of firefly, I’m not even gonna pretend that the writing doesn’t have a very specific set of issues, and that cancellation might have saved it from becoming aggressively mid and boring.
If Serenity was more or less the intended ending to the season (specifically revealing the alliance actually created the reapers and are unequivocally villainous) I’m actually happy they didn’t get to put that in the show.
Same for the Shepherd Book backstory comic where he was actually a brown coat double agent in the alliance, because god forbid we have to accept that your enemy isn’t ontologically evil.
But the best criticism I’ve seen of Whedon is that all his dialogue has over time exceedingly forgone character voice in favour of funny quips.
So much of his later production’s quotable lines are almost impossible to attribute correctly just from the lines themselves.
Apparently they don’t like Sweet Baby’s focus on “promoting inclusivity”, so just some bigot getting their panties on a twist that the “out-group” is being treated with a basic level of human dignity. They then spent a bunch of time and effort to let the world know they think inclusivity is bad.
people should be free to know who worked on the game they buy. If they don’t like sweetbaby’s products, then they are free to not pay money for them. Transparency is good.
It’s not a plugin, and as far as I know it uses publicly available information.
I just don’t understand the use case. So people look for a game they’d like to try, then go and check that list, then go back and purchase the game if it’s not on the list? Why? If they make games bad the reviews will tell you the game is bad.
And it’s perfectly reasonable for people to ask “why don’t you want to buy a game sweetbaby worked on?”
For example: I won’t purchase a game produced by Blizzard. If someone asked me why I wouldn’t evade the question by saying “I am free to do so, that is my choice.” I will happily tell them it’s because of how poorly they treat their employees, and how they actively make games worse to try to squeeze more money out of people. The entire point of a boycott is to inform people why this company should be boycotted.
All this dancing around answering the very simple question of “why do you actively want to avoid purchasing a game SBI worked on” speaks volumes as to how generally unacceptable that reason must be. Makes it look like people are afraid to “say the quiet part of loud.” Why else would they not just answer the question?
yes of course because inclusivity always just means inclusivity and not that you want to shove your political agenda into places where it does not belong. games have always been inclusive sweet baby are essentially just sensitivity readers for games. and by that totally missing the point of what games are. showing they should have nothing to do with video games in the first place. nobody said inclusively is bad. what is bad is using inclusively as shield for your own politics. and its also bad to mischaracterize what the argument is really about.
and not that you want to shove your political agenda into places where it does not belong
Do you have any direct examples instead of just names of games (screenshots, quotes, etc)? What specific"political agenda" is being pushed, and is this falling into the pit of “everything is politics, but this is politics I don’t like?”
games have always been inclusive
That’s just a lie. It’s always telling when on Steam discussion pages I see people complaining that they can’t customize their character and to play a certain class they have to be female or a minority, as if for 99% of games the protagonist doesn’t have to be a white male. “I feel included so it’s inclusive.”
its also bad to mischaracterize what the argument is really about.
When trying to get a direct answer as to what the argument is really about is like pulling teeth, then people are going to misunderstand. Even in your post you’ve provided no sources to show that Sweet Baby lowers the quality of games, but you *do" complain about inclusivity. So the only “fact” that I can actually pull away from your post is that you don’t like them because of their focus on inclusivity. You say it’s because it makes the games worse, but you have shown no evidence of that.
i have as much examples as you have examples of just saying inclusivity is good means its actually good. its a stupid tactic and i don’t appreciate it. keep your debate tactics to yourself. talk like a normal person im not in a plant debate with you. if you really want sources use some yourself first but we all know that would just be stupid in a comment section.
inclusively does not just mean that you can create a character that looks like you that’s very superficial it also means that everybody can appreciate a story and like it because its a good story and has good characters no matter what race minority status or sexuality. if you need to focus on superficial characteristics your doing wrong
like i already said sweet baby does never make there own games they leech of other peoples games and get payed for it. people are making educated guesses from what the company says and what the people who work there say. they create the problem that they are the Solution to. they focus on representation as business model and they represent it in the most superficial performative hollow fake way this will never help anybody actually have good story’s in games it just helps sweet baby make money by riding the wave of fake performative hollow inclusivity
if you really want sources use some yourself first
“This company does bad work! Everyone needs to avoid anything they’ve work on!”
“Okay… can you give me some examples of their bad work?”
“No! First YOU prove that the work they are trying to do is good!”
How hard you work to deflect the conversation speaks volumes towards what the real issue is here.
I tried going to the Sweet Baby Inc detected page to see what the actual issue is but nothing is explained. Just a list of games and the comment “SBI worked on this.”
Why should I care? It’s never explained. You say they do bad work, and when I ask for an example you give a long winded no. For someone who feels so passionately about them being bad you are very reluctant to actually back up your claims.
You are upset that I “mischaracterize[d] what the argument is really about” but it is impossible to find any direct statements as to what the argument is really about. Any clear statements of the curation page would help prevent “mischaracterization”, but people are twisting themselves in knots in order to not make direct statements.
I have no strong opinions about SBI, I could be convinced that they are bad and best avoided, but nobody wants to present any actual arguments no matter how much people ask. Makes it really sound like a group of people too afraid to say the quiet part out loud because it wouldn’t be acceptable.
sweet baby does never make there own games they leech of other peoples games and get payed for it.
You mean games hire them for a service? Lots of games do that. I’ve yet to see any example of the service they provide being bad.
for someone complaining about deflecting the conversation you sure do know how to deflect the conversation. i m not going to repeat myself on what the issue is.
a service that should not exist and that makes games worse. if you want proof maybe ask if you can see the scripts they wrote for the games they worked on. maybe you can show us sources and proof. because you really like sources and proof. and your not using this at all as a distraction from the point . and the point is that sweet baby is shit company that does shit work that makes games worse. if you just want to say its a company that promotes inclusion that’s your problem not mine. but that would be missing the point.
I am not arguing that SBI is good, I’m trying to get a clear argument as to why SBI is bad and keep hitting brick walls. I don’t know what type of “source” you expect for that other than gestures broadly at the comments.
and the point is that sweet baby is shit company that does shit work that makes games worse
There’s lots of shit companies that make shit games. I don’t need a curated list of shit games do be able to avoid them, I can look at reviews and even get a refund through Steam. What makes SBI special such that reviews and refunds are insufficient to be able to avoid poor quality games?
Seems like it would have been trivia to read comments that are already posted. see i can do that to.
you hit brick walls because you want to hit brick walls. ignorance is bliss and all that.
That first paragraph is the most cringe inducing thing I’ve ever read. If you had written guttural sounds and whines you’d have sounded less stupid. Go and learn something you embarrassment.
you have not seen much have you. you assume to much and you like to talk for people because you like talking to yourself and make up conversations don’t really know if that’s good state of mind to have maybe look into that. you seem like someone that’s very sensitive someone not made for the internet.
I’m not talking for anyone, so you seem to have gotten a little lost again. It’s ok, go back and re-read, do it slowly and sound the hard words out loud so you can work out what they are. Maybe you’ll extract some of the actual meaning from the word, then you can finally make a comment that actually follows a conversation instead of this weird straw man about someone “not made for the internet.”
And dude, the conversations I’m responding to are literally right there above my comments, where is it you think that stupid line of thought is going? Everyone can see what you said. Are you struggling with object permanence as well?
my dude you are talking for me again and you are sniffing your own farts. being this far up your own ass will never be a good look. you are funny thank you very much i appreciate it.
You know how most people never heard of this company or care that it exists? My understanding is that they consult on games to make them more inclusive. So you have a gay character written into a game, perhaps the result of this company’s contributions or perhaps not, and then a bunch of people complain that Sweet Baby made the game woke or some nonsense. How did I hear of this? Steam forums became a cesspool for people crying about this company. If Suicide Squad bombs, it’s because they consulted with Sweet Baby and went woke. Indiana Jones maybe features a woman in the trailer who looks like more than a damsel in distress? Sweet Baby’s doing.
its curation list of games that sweet baby has worked on. this is made more difficult because sweet baby never makes there own game. because they consult leech off other peoples games and get payed for it. and that the work they do is shit and is associated with bad games so nobody wants to buy them. but as said above its not always easy to find out on what game they worked.
im not the one calling people names am i. you seem to be the one wanting to rile people up. who are you kidding if it was really that boring you would not have replied in the first place.
that’s the whole point you make it before you buy because you cant always tell on what game they worked because they don’t make the game.
But why should I care so much if this company was involved in a game? If the game is bad the reviews will reflect that, I don’t see the reason for checking an extra source to see if this company was involved or not. Let the games stand on their own.
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They have been gaining a reputation for poor writing, ‘wheadonesque’ if you know the term. Some lowlights on the game Forspoken that they worked on being a recent funny example. I don’t like them because I do find the writing bad, but some people don’t like them for their politics.
They are contractor writers, if a company is using such services for their games instead of hiring their own staff writers, then they are not that interested in quality.
I thought Joss Wheadon was known for good writing and snappy dialogue?
Snappy, witty, but ultimately shallow. Good lines, not necessarily great stories.
Are we pretending that Buffy, Firefly, and Doll House weren’t great stories?
Cabin in the Woods remains one of my favorite comedy horror movies to this day.
IMO that one works because of how little character each actual character has by design. Dumb jock is dumb and jocky, stoner is stoned, virgin is timid. It’s a play on the lack of real character that mid to low budget horror movies often have.
It’s a great movie but I do find when Wheadon tries to do anything else, it just simmers down to kitchy one-liners that elicit a mild chuckle and nothing else, and that gets old very quickly.
There’s no pretending, they’re all middling trash.
Firefly gets by solely on the setting.
So Space shows are popular just because they are in space? Andromeda would like a word…
Agents of Shield was also quite enjoyable
Speaking as a huge fan of firefly, I’m not even gonna pretend that the writing doesn’t have a very specific set of issues, and that cancellation might have saved it from becoming aggressively mid and boring.
If Serenity was more or less the intended ending to the season (specifically revealing the alliance actually created the reapers and are unequivocally villainous) I’m actually happy they didn’t get to put that in the show.
Same for the Shepherd Book backstory comic where he was actually a brown coat double agent in the alliance, because god forbid we have to accept that your enemy isn’t ontologically evil.
But the best criticism I’ve seen of Whedon is that all his dialogue has over time exceedingly forgone character voice in favour of funny quips.
So much of his later production’s quotable lines are almost impossible to attribute correctly just from the lines themselves.
Apparently they don’t like Sweet Baby’s focus on “promoting inclusivity”, so just some bigot getting their panties on a twist that the “out-group” is being treated with a basic level of human dignity. They then spent a bunch of time and effort to let the world know they think inclusivity is bad.
people should be free to know who worked on the game they buy. If they don’t like sweetbaby’s products, then they are free to not pay money for them. Transparency is good.
And is this information hidden in some way?
not anymore, thanks to that plugin
It’s not a plugin, and as far as I know it uses publicly available information.
I just don’t understand the use case. So people look for a game they’d like to try, then go and check that list, then go back and purchase the game if it’s not on the list? Why? If they make games bad the reviews will tell you the game is bad.
It’s perfectly reasonable for people to say “I don’t want to buy a game that Sweetbaby worked on”. It’s their choice.
And it’s perfectly reasonable for people to ask “why don’t you want to buy a game sweetbaby worked on?”
For example: I won’t purchase a game produced by Blizzard. If someone asked me why I wouldn’t evade the question by saying “I am free to do so, that is my choice.” I will happily tell them it’s because of how poorly they treat their employees, and how they actively make games worse to try to squeeze more money out of people. The entire point of a boycott is to inform people why this company should be boycotted.
All this dancing around answering the very simple question of “why do you actively want to avoid purchasing a game SBI worked on” speaks volumes as to how generally unacceptable that reason must be. Makes it look like people are afraid to “say the quiet part of loud.” Why else would they not just answer the question?
People don’t need your approval on how they spend their money. Nor do they need to justify their choices.
Is it also reasonable to spam report and make racist/sexist remarks?
yes of course because inclusivity always just means inclusivity and not that you want to shove your political agenda into places where it does not belong. games have always been inclusive sweet baby are essentially just sensitivity readers for games. and by that totally missing the point of what games are. showing they should have nothing to do with video games in the first place. nobody said inclusively is bad. what is bad is using inclusively as shield for your own politics. and its also bad to mischaracterize what the argument is really about.
Do you have any direct examples instead of just names of games (screenshots, quotes, etc)? What specific"political agenda" is being pushed, and is this falling into the pit of “everything is politics, but this is politics I don’t like?”
That’s just a lie. It’s always telling when on Steam discussion pages I see people complaining that they can’t customize their character and to play a certain class they have to be female or a minority, as if for 99% of games the protagonist doesn’t have to be a white male. “I feel included so it’s inclusive.”
When trying to get a direct answer as to what the argument is really about is like pulling teeth, then people are going to misunderstand. Even in your post you’ve provided no sources to show that Sweet Baby lowers the quality of games, but you *do" complain about inclusivity. So the only “fact” that I can actually pull away from your post is that you don’t like them because of their focus on inclusivity. You say it’s because it makes the games worse, but you have shown no evidence of that.
i have as much examples as you have examples of just saying inclusivity is good means its actually good. its a stupid tactic and i don’t appreciate it. keep your debate tactics to yourself. talk like a normal person im not in a plant debate with you. if you really want sources use some yourself first but we all know that would just be stupid in a comment section.
inclusively does not just mean that you can create a character that looks like you that’s very superficial it also means that everybody can appreciate a story and like it because its a good story and has good characters no matter what race minority status or sexuality. if you need to focus on superficial characteristics your doing wrong
like i already said sweet baby does never make there own games they leech of other peoples games and get payed for it. people are making educated guesses from what the company says and what the people who work there say. they create the problem that they are the Solution to. they focus on representation as business model and they represent it in the most superficial performative hollow fake way this will never help anybody actually have good story’s in games it just helps sweet baby make money by riding the wave of fake performative hollow inclusivity
“This company does bad work! Everyone needs to avoid anything they’ve work on!”
“Okay… can you give me some examples of their bad work?”
“No! First YOU prove that the work they are trying to do is good!”
How hard you work to deflect the conversation speaks volumes towards what the real issue is here.
I tried going to the Sweet Baby Inc detected page to see what the actual issue is but nothing is explained. Just a list of games and the comment “SBI worked on this.”
Why should I care? It’s never explained. You say they do bad work, and when I ask for an example you give a long winded no. For someone who feels so passionately about them being bad you are very reluctant to actually back up your claims.
You are upset that I “mischaracterize[d] what the argument is really about” but it is impossible to find any direct statements as to what the argument is really about. Any clear statements of the curation page would help prevent “mischaracterization”, but people are twisting themselves in knots in order to not make direct statements.
I have no strong opinions about SBI, I could be convinced that they are bad and best avoided, but nobody wants to present any actual arguments no matter how much people ask. Makes it really sound like a group of people too afraid to say the quiet part out loud because it wouldn’t be acceptable.
You mean games hire them for a service? Lots of games do that. I’ve yet to see any example of the service they provide being bad.
for someone complaining about deflecting the conversation you sure do know how to deflect the conversation. i m not going to repeat myself on what the issue is.
a service that should not exist and that makes games worse. if you want proof maybe ask if you can see the scripts they wrote for the games they worked on. maybe you can show us sources and proof. because you really like sources and proof. and your not using this at all as a distraction from the point . and the point is that sweet baby is shit company that does shit work that makes games worse. if you just want to say its a company that promotes inclusion that’s your problem not mine. but that would be missing the point.
Seems like it would have been trivial to copy past if it had already been made clear.
Of what? That nobody is making a clear statement as to what the issue is with SBI? Okay, here’s one source that implies SBI is bad but gives no reasons as to why: https://store.steampowered.com/curator/44858017-Sweet-Baby-Inc-detected/
I am not arguing that SBI is good, I’m trying to get a clear argument as to why SBI is bad and keep hitting brick walls. I don’t know what type of “source” you expect for that other than gestures broadly at the comments.
There’s lots of shit companies that make shit games. I don’t need a curated list of shit games do be able to avoid them, I can look at reviews and even get a refund through Steam. What makes SBI special such that reviews and refunds are insufficient to be able to avoid poor quality games?
Seems like it would have been trivia to read comments that are already posted. see i can do that to. you hit brick walls because you want to hit brick walls. ignorance is bliss and all that.
That first paragraph is the most cringe inducing thing I’ve ever read. If you had written guttural sounds and whines you’d have sounded less stupid. Go and learn something you embarrassment.
you have not seen much have you. you assume to much and you like to talk for people because you like talking to yourself and make up conversations don’t really know if that’s good state of mind to have maybe look into that. you seem like someone that’s very sensitive someone not made for the internet.
I’m not talking for anyone, so you seem to have gotten a little lost again. It’s ok, go back and re-read, do it slowly and sound the hard words out loud so you can work out what they are. Maybe you’ll extract some of the actual meaning from the word, then you can finally make a comment that actually follows a conversation instead of this weird straw man about someone “not made for the internet.”
And dude, the conversations I’m responding to are literally right there above my comments, where is it you think that stupid line of thought is going? Everyone can see what you said. Are you struggling with object permanence as well?
my dude you are talking for me again and you are sniffing your own farts. being this far up your own ass will never be a good look. you are funny thank you very much i appreciate it.
Could you please stop shoving your political agenda into places where it doesn’t belong, like this thread?
what is this political agenda you speak off? and what made it so important to you that you felt the need to send a reply.
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Like Why Sweet Baby employees started to harass? Hurt feelings or to make themselves to be the victim.
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Because they want people to boycott games made by Sweet Baby. That’s what the curation page basically is, an boycott list.
Your dancing around the answer says more than you being open and honest about this ever could
You know how most people never heard of this company or care that it exists? My understanding is that they consult on games to make them more inclusive. So you have a gay character written into a game, perhaps the result of this company’s contributions or perhaps not, and then a bunch of people complain that Sweet Baby made the game woke or some nonsense. How did I hear of this? Steam forums became a cesspool for people crying about this company. If Suicide Squad bombs, it’s because they consulted with Sweet Baby and went woke. Indiana Jones maybe features a woman in the trailer who looks like more than a damsel in distress? Sweet Baby’s doing.
It sounds like all I need to do is to continue to ignore this list I just heard of, and judge each game by its own merits.
Correct, this is not a call to action for anyone except Valve to moderate conspiracy theorists.
its curation list of games that sweet baby has worked on. this is made more difficult because sweet baby never makes there own game. because they consult leech off other peoples games and get payed for it. and that the work they do is shit and is associated with bad games so nobody wants to buy them. but as said above its not always easy to find out on what game they worked.
So, just to be clear. You seem to be a bigot. Who is trying to get everyone rilied up along with the other bigots.
Please stop pretending. its boring.
im not the one calling people names am i. you seem to be the one wanting to rile people up. who are you kidding if it was really that boring you would not have replied in the first place.
👍
If nobody wants to buy them the list seems superfluous, the Steam reviews should be sufficient to warn people off.
that’s the whole point you make it before you buy because you cant always tell on what game they worked because they don’t make the game.
But why should I care so much if this company was involved in a game? If the game is bad the reviews will reflect that, I don’t see the reason for checking an extra source to see if this company was involved or not. Let the games stand on their own.
But why are they boycotting?