Human scale? Not yours or mines, measures of the ffoot, thumbs and random desires of a dead British King in the far past.
No problem in metrics, at least if I don’t build a hut in the wood with an axe, then maybe using parts of the body for measures are usefull. Not the first furniture I made, also working in metal. Also in mathematic and physic the metric system is way better (Even NASA now uses the metric system since 2 probes crashed on Marte due to calculation errors in the imperial system)
Just wait for an American to tell you how it’s easier to use fractions with imperial. I’ve legit seen them say shit like 3/8 of an inch is easier to think about than 9.5mm.
Valid denominators are 2, 4, 8, 16, or 32. Technically, 64, 128, and 256 are also acceptable, but they are never actually used. For precision greater than 1/32nd, we switch to thousandths, or tenths of thousandths.
~3.2mm. I can’t think of any real world application which needs fraction of a millimeter which doesn’t include ah calculator and some damn exact measuring tools.
Well I’m building a table right now, and it was pretty easy to choose a size for a mortise and tenon in my 3/4" stock, a third of 3/4" is 1/4". If I wanted half its width, that’s 3/8". Mental math is a lot easier than “What’s a third of 19mm.” In the wood shop, I rarely have to divide things by five or ten. I have to divide things by two, three and four a lot.
I’m building a shaker table out of white oak. I milled all my stock to 3/4" thickness.
Just today, I resawed a board to 3/8", or half its original thickness. I glued two boards together to make 3/2" (1 1/2") thick table legs, and I cut mortises 1/3 the thickness of the stock, or a nice even 1/4".
I’m familiar with the metric system, I learned chemistry and physics in metric. I prefer woodworking in fractional inches because metric seems like a bigger pain in the ass
okay then my answer to the hypothetical is 9.5/3, which is every bit as easy to find on any measurement device, or to use for any practical purpose, as 1/24th
You know what really gets me about these threads? Everybody being like “Can you believe Americans are stupid enough to comprehend fractions? I’m too smart to comprehend fractions.”
Woodworker in US here, and I prefer metric. Also consider the thickness of plywood is actually in metric now - “3/4” is actually 18 mm but they have to market it as 23/32.
I’ve chosen to join the other 8 billion people on earth.
Are you telling us that you are actually making, say a box, by measuring it with your hands and feet? That’s barbaric!
I’m guessing you actually use a tape measure like the rest of us.
That is what you’re implying by saying that imperial is more intuitive. But if you’re measuring with normal measurement equipment that argument is moot. At that point using imperial is easier for you just because you’re used to it. When normal people have to use imperial for things, all intuition is out the door and it will be hell.
You’re failing to externalise your own experience from the situation. Maybe you should practice that a bit more.
Dude, WTF are you talking about? When I was a machinist it was so much easier to deal with metric. 1 inch ~ 25 mm, from there it is just way easier to deal with measurements such as 27.5 mm instead of 1 5/64 inches and all of these inverse powers of 2. I was always jealous of the French machinist I worked with talking about how the only units you should ever have to work with is meters and millimeters. If you are concerned about “Human Scale” then intuitively a meter and a yard are close enough for estimates and you don’t have to deal with “wait, what is 5/8 + 3/16 + 1 7/64?”
In binary it’s 0.101 + 0.0011 + 1.000111, or laid out vertically:
0.101
0.0011
1.000111
=
1.111011
Halving numbers is no harder than decimating them, probably easier for most of us. Even computer scientists don’t think of base-10 as The Way The Truth and The Light; they use base-2 or base-16 for various things.
Decimal/base-ten is fine as a convention, but insisting that One Convention is perfect and others are heretical is stupid.
halving is a really easy mental operation; we do it all the time mentally and with physical things like bits of food or drink or folding a piece of paper
Woodworking, sure. You have a piece of wood 2’ 5 5/8“ long that you need to cut into quarters. Can you calculate that in your head? Metric is SOOOO much easier.
Alternatively, the same measurement is 752.5mm / 4 = 188.1mm, to a practical number of significant figures. No convertions between feet and inches (or ridiculous fractions of inches), and only one calculation.
Yes but my measuring tape actually has 32nds on it. The meter side only has whole divisions, not tenth graduations.
So the sae “ridiculous fraction” is a measurement I can easily make with tools I have on hand to the tools own limit of precision and double check in my head with five seconds of fifth grade level mathematics while the metric one can’t be actually measured without a set of calipers and honestly would merit long division or a calculator to double check and still needs rounding off a vile eighth of millimeter to hit what is in your own words “a practical number of significant figures”.
Imma throw something out there and I hope the earnest admission that I can’t divide 752.5 by four in my head with the level of confidence required to cut materials by is enough to recognize it not as an attack but as a real grasp at understanding:
People who make posts like yours either don’t measure things in any meaningful way (cutting, dividing, scribing lines, etc) or don’t know how to work with fractions.
Like I said: it’s not an attack, I just can’t see how someone would suggest that the metric equivalent to 13/32 is easier to work with unless they didn’t intend to actually measure it or couldn’t do fractions.
I like imperial for big things. like you said it’s easier. For small things like 3d printing and such I prefer metric (basically anything with increments smaller than 1/16"). It just depends on what scale you need to work on.
It’s easier for handling real things.
Try doing woodwork in feet and inches for a day. Try it in metric for a day. You’ll see what I mean.
It was crafted for the human-scale, whereas metric was worked out on paper by French philosophers.
Human scale? Not yours or mines, measures of the ffoot, thumbs and random desires of a dead British King in the far past. No problem in metrics, at least if I don’t build a hut in the wood with an axe, then maybe using parts of the body for measures are usefull. Not the first furniture I made, also working in metal. Also in mathematic and physic the metric system is way better (Even NASA now uses the metric system since 2 probes crashed on Marte due to calculation errors in the imperial system)
Just wait for an American to tell you how it’s easier to use fractions with imperial. I’ve legit seen them say shit like 3/8 of an inch is easier to think about than 9.5mm.
Above having to add 3/8, 5/16 and 2/3 inch ¬¬
2/3 is not a valid fraction of inches.
Valid denominators are 2, 4, 8, 16, or 32. Technically, 64, 128, and 256 are also acceptable, but they are never actually used. For precision greater than 1/32nd, we switch to thousandths, or tenths of thousandths.
3/8 + 5/16 is 11/16ths.
Quick off the top of your head, what’s a third of 9.5mm?
~3.2mm. I can’t think of any real world application which needs fraction of a millimeter which doesn’t include ah calculator and some damn exact measuring tools.
We are communicating through writing on an asynchronous web forum.
Quick off the top of your head, why would I use fractions of a cm instead of mm? It’s a workaround for a shit system
Well I’m building a table right now, and it was pretty easy to choose a size for a mortise and tenon in my 3/4" stock, a third of 3/4" is 1/4". If I wanted half its width, that’s 3/8". Mental math is a lot easier than “What’s a third of 19mm.” In the wood shop, I rarely have to divide things by five or ten. I have to divide things by two, three and four a lot.
I don’t know anything about carpentry, so I’ll take your word on it.
My best guess is that the standards are different. For example 2cm stock instead of 1.9. Then only the 1/3 is problematic.
I’m building a shaker table out of white oak. I milled all my stock to 3/4" thickness.
Just today, I resawed a board to 3/8", or half its original thickness. I glued two boards together to make 3/2" (1 1/2") thick table legs, and I cut mortises 1/3 the thickness of the stock, or a nice even 1/4".
I’m familiar with the metric system, I learned chemistry and physics in metric. I prefer woodworking in fractional inches because metric seems like a bigger pain in the ass
what’s a 1/3 of 1/8th of an inch?
1/24th.
Fractions of fractions are easy, just multiply the denominators.
okay then my answer to the hypothetical is 9.5/3, which is every bit as easy to find on any measurement device, or to use for any practical purpose, as 1/24th
Well I’m not the person who initially asked you that, I’m just someone who recognizes how easy it is to work with fractions.
Also I have a ruler with 1/12s graduations and while it’s not 24ths, my neighbor has one marked like that.
E: my drafting ruler has a short 24ths scale
You know what really gets me about these threads? Everybody being like “Can you believe Americans are stupid enough to comprehend fractions? I’m too smart to comprehend fractions.”
so in other words you’re helpless in that situation?
we can play the same game with 1/18th or whatever if you want
I doubt it had much to do with kings, as they didn’t do handicrafts or have to measure things like grocers/traders do.
That image is really stupid, too much wrong with it to go thru.
I am willing to bet that you are simply more used to the imperial system.
I am not convinced that it has any objective advantage over the metric system.
My foot is about 50% larger than my SO’s, but I can perfectly invision 30cm whenever I want or need to.
Cooking too. Try baking a cake in the two.
Pounds-and-ounces is all like “two eights is sixteen”, “three threes is nine”. Nice and handy multiples is what it’s made on.
I’m about equally familiar with the two.
Woodworker in US here, and I prefer metric. Also consider the thickness of plywood is actually in metric now - “3/4” is actually 18 mm but they have to market it as 23/32.
I’ve chosen to join the other 8 billion people on earth.
Are you telling us that you are actually making, say a box, by measuring it with your hands and feet? That’s barbaric! I’m guessing you actually use a tape measure like the rest of us.
You and @Zerush both resorted to this fake idea that [not using the metric convention] = [measuring things with your body-parts]
Very weird lie. I’ll take it as an admission you’re out of sensible points.
That is what you’re implying by saying that imperial is more intuitive. But if you’re measuring with normal measurement equipment that argument is moot. At that point using imperial is easier for you just because you’re used to it. When normal people have to use imperial for things, all intuition is out the door and it will be hell.
You’re failing to externalise your own experience from the situation. Maybe you should practice that a bit more.
Dude, WTF are you talking about? When I was a machinist it was so much easier to deal with metric. 1 inch ~ 25 mm, from there it is just way easier to deal with measurements such as 27.5 mm instead of 1 5/64 inches and all of these inverse powers of 2. I was always jealous of the French machinist I worked with talking about how the only units you should ever have to work with is meters and millimeters. If you are concerned about “Human Scale” then intuitively a meter and a yard are close enough for estimates and you don’t have to deal with “wait, what is 5/8 + 3/16 + 1 7/64?”
Those are so easily commensurable! It’s 1 and 59/64 obv.
It’s set up to make this easy.
Let me ask: do you think people have usedit for hundreds of years for no reason?
I legit can’t tell if this is sarcasm.
In binary it’s 0.101 + 0.0011 + 1.000111, or laid out vertically:
Halving numbers is no harder than decimating them, probably easier for most of us. Even computer scientists don’t think of base-10 as The Way The Truth and The Light; they use base-2 or base-16 for various things.
Decimal/base-ten is fine as a convention, but insisting that One Convention is perfect and others are heretical is stupid.
You do you, but if you’re reverting to binary to explain how simple it is to add values together, I think you’ve made a wrong turn somewhere.
halving is a really easy mental operation; we do it all the time mentally and with physical things like bits of food or drink or folding a piece of paper
Let me also ask, do you think the rest of the world moved away from it for no reason?
Woodworking, sure. You have a piece of wood 2’ 5 5/8“ long that you need to cut into quarters. Can you calculate that in your head? Metric is SOOOO much easier.
here’s how i did: 2’/4=6", 5 5/8"/4=1 13/32, so it’s 7 13/32"
smart to pick a prime numerator!
Alternatively, the same measurement is 752.5mm / 4 = 188.1mm, to a practical number of significant figures. No convertions between feet and inches (or ridiculous fractions of inches), and only one calculation.
Yes but my measuring tape actually has 32nds on it. The meter side only has whole divisions, not tenth graduations.
So the sae “ridiculous fraction” is a measurement I can easily make with tools I have on hand to the tools own limit of precision and double check in my head with five seconds of fifth grade level mathematics while the metric one can’t be actually measured without a set of calipers and honestly would merit long division or a calculator to double check and still needs rounding off a vile eighth of millimeter to hit what is in your own words “a practical number of significant figures”.
Imma throw something out there and I hope the earnest admission that I can’t divide 752.5 by four in my head with the level of confidence required to cut materials by is enough to recognize it not as an attack but as a real grasp at understanding:
People who make posts like yours either don’t measure things in any meaningful way (cutting, dividing, scribing lines, etc) or don’t know how to work with fractions.
Like I said: it’s not an attack, I just can’t see how someone would suggest that the metric equivalent to 13/32 is easier to work with unless they didn’t intend to actually measure it or couldn’t do fractions.
I like imperial for big things. like you said it’s easier. For small things like 3d printing and such I prefer metric (basically anything with increments smaller than 1/16"). It just depends on what scale you need to work on.