[Idea] If you don’t want to see huge flags taking space over actual drawings in the Canvas, pick the biggest flag that you can find to deface.

As long as a lot of people are doing that, the ones templating larger flags will be forced to reduce their layouts and give more room for actual drawings.

[Reasoning] When it comes to country flags, I think that the immense majority of the users can be split into four groups:

  1. The ones who don’t want to see country flags at all.
  2. The ones who are OK with smaller flags, but don’t want to see larger ones.
  3. The ones who want to see a specific large flag taking a huge chunk of space.
  4. The ones who want to see the whole canvas burning, like the void.

I’m myself firmly rooted into #1, but this idea is a compromise between #1, #2 and #4.

Typically #3 uses numbers (and/or bots) to seize a huge chunk of the canvas to their flags. Well, let’s use numbers against it then. As long as #1, #2 and #4 are trying to wreck the same flag, we win.

[inb4]

But what about identity flags?

Not a problem. They’re typically bands instead of thick squares, and people drawing them are fairly accommodating.

But what about [insert another thing]

Even if [thing] is a problem, it’s probably minor in comparison with huge country flags.

What should be the template?

None. We don’t need one, as long as everyone is working against the same large flag.

Just draw something of your choice over the flag, preferably over its iconic features.

But I’m not creative enough for that!

No matter how shitty your drawing is, it’s probably still way more original than a country flag. So don’t feel discouraged.

That said, you can always help someone else with their drawing. Or plop in some text. Or just void.

Why are you posting this now, you bloody Slowpoke?

I wish that I thought about this before Canvas 2024. But better later than never. (And better early by a year for Canvas 2025.)

EDIT: addressing on general grounds some whining from group #3 (the ones who want to see a specific large flag taking a huge chunk of the canvas space).

You do realise that this sort of “war against the largest flag” should benefit even you, as long as the biggest flag is not the one you’re working with, right? Even for you, this makes the canvas a more even level field. Let us not forget that you love to cover other flags with your own.

  • Lvxferre@mander.xyzOP
    2·
    4 months ago

    Not quite “to protect it”; more like “to ignore it”. Even if the drawings are nationalistic in nature. For multiple reasons:

    1. Less targets = less effort.
    2. Easier to coordinate efforts towards something clear-cut (like “this is a flag”), than something that is often up to debate (like “this is a nationalistic symbol”).
    3. Those drawings are typically more elaborated than “me maeks flag”. As such, their artistic value is (for me) higher.
    4. The interpretation of a drawing as a nationalistic symbol depends heavily on the context, usually provided by the flag. (Think for example on a Taj Mahal on itself vs. a Taj Mahal mit an Indian flag. Or, dunno, a kiwi fruit with a NZer flag.)

    But the main reason is that, while I personally despise nationalism and all that “muh country! lol lmao heil!” babble, the idea is to coordinate people based on the goal, not the reason behind chasing said goal. Some might share my worldviews of nationalistic symbols being bad, but most won’t - some will be there just to see the canvas burn, some for the sake of carving room for another (and hopefully smaller) flag, etc.

    Now, regarding the effort necessary to put something on the canvas, and the fact that we’ll be reverting the result of the hours that they spent there: at the end of the day, the Canvas is solely a game. And even if they might dislike it, this sort of “you did it and I undid it” is part of the game.

    I really don’t mean to offend you, I just want to understand where you’re coming from with this.

    Don’t worry about it; you aren’t offending me.

    I also apologise for the defensive tone that I took towards you at the start; I was expecting a lot of sealioning in this thread, from some flag posters, and it did happen, however you’re clearly not sealioning, so you didn’t deserve that tone.

    • FireWire400@lemmy.worldEnglish
      2·
      4 months ago

      Those drawings are typically more elaborated than “me maeks flag”. As such, their artistic value is (for me) higher.

      That might be true, but depending on the flag I’d say that the whole act of adapting it into pixel art bears artistic value enough to say that the people responsible don’t just blindly copy a template.

      nationalistic symbol

      I believe that most people (I even want to say almost everyone) drawing their country’s flag on the canvas don’t do it because they’re a nationalists or they want to force the flag (as a representation of a country and all the connotations it may have) onto other people.

      That goes back to the point I made earlier about the two types of communities; defending the “purity” of the flag and not allowing anyone to draw on it is more akin to forcing the flag onto people I think, while allowing people to more or less “deface” the flag with their own drawings (while still respecting other people’s drawings i.e. the flag itself) is much more inviting and arguably in the spirit of the whole event.

      this sort of “you did it and I undid it” is part of the game.

      I guess I just want everyone to get along and work together, rather than against each other. Reddit’s r/place was a battlefield where only the biggest communities even had a chance of maintaining their works; I just want Lemmy canvas to be a bit more relaxed, that’s all.

      • Lvxferre@mander.xyzOP
        2·
        4 months ago

        I’ll clip the quotes for succinctness.

        That might be true, but depending on the flag […] don’t just blindly copy a template.

        I think that you’re referring to the struggle of adapting an intricate pattern to a lower resolution, as the solutions for that struggle can be considered artistic. There are two catches however:

        1. This applies mostly to flags with emblems (as Mexico’s) or text (as Saudi Arabia’s). Those are typically not the concern in this sort of coop/compete online canvas.
        2. That artistic value is mostly relevant for smaller flags. And given that the proposal is to cut down larger flags into size, it’ll actually increase their artistic value.

        I believe that most people […] don’t do it because they’re a nationalists or […] onto other people.

        Think a bit less on the people being nationalists and more on the discourse that those people are conveying being a nationalistic one.

        That goes back to the point I made earlier about the two types of communities; […] in the spirit of the whole event.

        I don’t think that those two types of user (ones willing vs. not willing to have drawings on a flag) map even remotely well to non-nationalists vs. nationalists. And, in any group posting any sort of country flag, you will have a mix of both types anyway, and it’ll be impossible for anyone to enforce it one or another way.

        Furthermore, when it comes to flag posters allegedly respecting the others’ drawings, it goes often as I described in another comment; under a discourse that sounds a lot like “this is the land of Our Holy Symbol. However, since we’re magnanimous, we shall turn a blind eye to your doodle defacing it.”, while co-opting those the people drawing random stuff to defend the flag posters’ flag, against other flags or actual drawings (as the people drawing random still likely care about the surroundings of their own drawing).

        About the spirit of the event, see below.

        I guess I just want everyone to get along and work together, rather than against each other. Reddit’s r/place was a battlefield where only the biggest communities even had a chance of maintaining their works; I just want Lemmy canvas to be a bit more relaxed, that’s all.

        If the game was only about getting along and working together, it would be completely different. Factions like The Void would be banned on the spot, there would be a larger canvas to accommodate everyone, multi-accounting wouldn’t be so discouraged, there would be measures discouraging people from undoing the others’ drawings…

        And yet none of those things happen. Because both cooperation and competition are part of the spirit of the game. In fact, I’d argue that they’re sides of the same coin, with the actual spirit being to mirror human social interactions in something inconsequential. It’s a bit like a political simulator, you know?

        Even then I think that the Fediverse canvas will stay far more relaxed than the one in Reddit.

        • FireWire400@lemmy.worldEnglish
          2·
          4 months ago

          Our Holy Symbol

          Again, I think that you’re focusing way too hard on there being some sort of deeper meaning to people drawing a country flag. Maybe you’re right and those people are nationalists who try to propagate some idea that their country is somehow better than yours by drawing a bigger flag. Why do you care so much?

          the actual spirit being to mirror human social interactions in something inconsequential

          I guess you could say it like that, although I would disagree that there are no consequences, most people just choose to ignore them because they don’t affect them personally in any way.

          I don’t think we’ll find common ground here, but that’s totally fine. It’s been nice talking about it anyway; I just hope everything I said made sense^^

          • Lvxferre@mander.xyzOP
            2·
            4 months ago

            Ah, the “our holy symbol” was copypasted from my earlier comment, so it doesn’t address what you’ve already said in the meantime.

            I also don’t think that we’ll find common ground. It’s sounding more and more like different moral premises; and yes, what you said made sense (even if I disagree with it).