Yes, you need to abandon both and elect a new party of overthrow the state. That’s been the solution for the last 30 years, but y’all aren’t going to do that, so forgive me for discussing actual plausible scenarios.
So I’m going to preface this by saying how I feel about the situation. I’m furious that Biden and the Democrats aren’t just… y’know, fucking stopping this shit. I’m furious that the administration isn’t doing more to end the goddamned genocide. It makes me feel sick to think that the executive branch of my country isn’t denouncing what’s happening. The Democrats are supposed to be the party for compassionate people. I consider myself to be a compassionate person, and the Democrats are absolutely failing to represent me.
I’m sure there’s some realpolitik going on there, but like, realpolitik can suck my asshole when my taxes are paying for bombs and missiles that are being used by a different country in an unjust war to kill innocent people in a genocide.
Make no mistake, I want this shit to end right the fuck now. I want Israel to fuck off back to their borders. I want the hostages to be traded, I want Palestine to be a full state in the UN with defensive treaties. I want Bibi and the people who enabled him to be tried for crimes against humanity. I want Israel and the United States to pay reparations and to foot the bill for the rebuilding of Palestinian infrastructure.
I want change. I am tired of the Democrats. Shit, I think there are a lot of people tired of the Republicans. Nobody is happy with the way out system works. I look at other countries with coalition governments and a large number of specific parties and I wish that I could have that. I would absolute love to have a party that represents my values and desires.
With all that said, I just don’t think that we will be able to enact meaningful change in 30ish days. To enact change within the confines our current system, we would need to convince tens of millions of people to vote for a candidate that truly represents them in that timeframe. Given the constricting nature of our two-party system, I think many people wouldn’t know who that is. I certainly don’t know who would represent me. It certainly wouldn’t be Jill Stein, to provide an example of a third party candidate. I’d vote for Bernie Sanders, but he’s not running for president. His election would require tens of millions to write his name on their ballots.
Many of the people who don’t feel represented by our government with regards to Palestine currently vote for the Democrats. If we were to all switch in unison and vote for someone who would truly stop this shit, then we could enact our change. I believe that there’s just no way to do that in a month.
If we try to enact change right now and fail, then we will likely end up with a violent, narcissistic rapist as the head of our government who will continue to implement blatantly christo-fascist policies. Christo-fascists do not like people of the Islamic faith, and Donald Trump has promised to wipe out Palestine if he is elected. He cannot be trusted to act according to what he has previously said (which, speaking from experience, is the fashion of all malignant narcissists who are not being treated for their PD), but there is a chance that he will follow through on his word and will speed up the genocide of the people of Palestine.
There are two primary candidates. One candidate will likely maintain the monstrous, awful, status quo. The other candidate may or may not direct the most powerful military force in the world to level Palestine and order the destruction of every man, woman, and child within its borders. The former gives the people of Palestine more time while to survive while we try to unfuck our system. It’s not a guarantee, but it’s a chance.
Earlier, I said that realpolitik can suck my asshole, and that’s what this feels like. It’s shit and I hate it and it makes me feel gross. None of this brings back the lives of those who have already died, and my choice probably wouldn’t really be appreciated by a Palestinian who is trying to survive the bombs I’m paying for. I won’t shame anyone who cannot live with themselves if they vote for Kamala Harris. People are entitled to their beliefs, and living out of compliance with them can be very harmful. However, I feel compelled to at least present an emotional argument against a vote for a 3rd party candidate (or no vote at all) in this specific situation.
I’m furious that the administration isn’t doing more to end the goddamned genocide
Biden approved the invasion of Lebanon and is sending in US troops and air support. They want this.
I’m sure there’s some realpolitik going on there, but like, realpolitik can suck my asshole when my taxes are paying for bombs and missiles that are being used by a different country in an unjust war to kill innocent people in a genocide.
Israel helps terrorize enemies of the US empire and secures the Petro-dollar.
With all that said, I just don’t think that we will be able to enact meaningful change in 30ish days. To enact change within the confines our current system, we would need to convince hundreds of millions of people to vote for a candidate that truly represents them in that timeframe. Given the constricting nature of our two-party system, I think many people wouldn’t know who that is. I certainly don’t know who would represent me. It certainly wouldn’t be Jill Stein, to provide an example of a third party candidate.
So hopes and prayers while you vote for continued genocide, got it. Your feelings don’t make the bombs lighter.
There are two primary candidates. One candidate will likely maintain the monstrous, awful, status quo. The other candidate may or may not direct the largest military force in the world to level Palestine and order the destruction of every man, woman, and child within its borders. The former gives the people of Palestine more time while to survive while we try to unfuck our system. It’s not a guarantee, but it’s a chance.
Biden has already ordered US air support and ground troops, the die is cast.
I can’t disagree with the facts presented about the positioning of US troops and the roles Israel and the US play on the geopolitical stage. This is a sick situation and my dread gets a bit deeper every day. I can’t contest that my feelings won’t do anything for the dead and the dying. I can’t ask people to do things that are contrary to their beliefs, and it’s clear that I do not have the capacity or the moral ground to affect the beliefs expressed in this thread.
To side with the even more genocidal Trump team? What kind of crazy is this? There isn’t a third option. There’s horrifically bad and there’s even worse and you’re siding with even worse. Come back to reality, Cowbee, it misses you.
The class is holding a vote on whether to put the “slap the ugly kid in the face” guy in charge or the “kick him in the nuts” guy in charge. You’re right to say the kid should be left alone. You’re right to say there should be a third option. You’re right that there should be no slapping. You’re right that the vote is offensive. But you can’t stop the vote and you can’t stop the violence. None of us can.
But fuck you if you can’t bring yourself to say that the kid ought not to be kicked in the nuts and fuck you if you tell all the nice kids not to vote and fuck you if the kid gets kicked in the nuts because of your idiot intervention that only ever talks about the slappers and gives the kick-in-the-nuts crowd a free pass.
Not voting just lets the “kick him in the nuts” guy win every time, which is why the “slap him in the face” guy came up with the slapping policy in the first place.
To side with the even more genocidal Trump team? What kind of crazy is this? There isn’t a third option. There’s horrifically bad and there’s even worse and you’re siding with even worse. Come back to reality, Cowbee, it misses you.
Of course not Trump, he’s just as genocidal as Harris, Walz, and Biden. You’re siding with genocide, that’s unacceptable.
The class is holding a vote on whether to put the “slap the ugly kid in the face” guy in charge or the “kick him in the nuts” guy in charge. You’re right to say the kid should be left alone. You’re right to say there should be a third option. You’re right that there should be no slapping. You’re right that the vote is offensive. But you can’t stop the vote and you can’t stop the violence. None of us can.
Pure defeatism, if we have to torture this poor kid then it’s best to tell the teacher to fuck off.
But fuck you if you can’t bring yourself to say that the kid ought not to be kicked in the nuts and fuck you if you tell all the nice kids not to vote and fuck you if the kid gets kicked in the nuts because of your idiot intervention that only ever talks about the slappers and gives the kick-in-the-nuts crowd a free pass.
You are still under the grand delusion that the GOP is worse than the DNC on the issue of genocide. They aren’t, this is a bipartisan effort. Biden has even sent in the troops and Walz said Israel needs to expand.
Not voting just lets the “kick him in the nuts” guy win every time, which is why the “slap him in the face” guy came up with the slapping policy in the first place.
No, this is so far removed from why America supports the genocidal settler-colonial entity. America supports Israel because Israel is a rabid dog on a leash that America uses to terrorize the Middle East and secure the Petro-Dollar, which it uses as the global standard to have a monopoly on Financial Capital, enslaving the Global South with predatory IMF loans.
You’re kidding yourself. The Democrats absolutely have to move right when left wing people refuse to vote, otherwise they lose.
Withdrawing your vote is literally withdrawing left wing influence on politics and anything else is just a complicated lie.
Letting the republicans win is just encouraging the democrats to be more like the republicans.
If you convince everyone who cares about Gaza not to vote, then the parties absolutely cannot afford to have a pro Gaza stance, because it’s electoral suicide - all the people who care about Gaza don’t vote and will the people who just hate on Muslims so.
You’re kidding yourself. The Democrats absolutely have to move right when left wing people refuse to vote, otherwise they lose.
They can move left if they want left votes.
Withdrawing your vote is literally withdrawing left wing influence on politics and anything else is just a complicated lie.
Do you think the Dems analyze the percentage of votes based on the beliefs of their voters? What fantasy land do you live in? The Dems keep trucking along for their donors and appeal to areas they want votes in from the public. If Leftists always vote for dems as a fixed lever, then Dems will move right to satisfy their donors more because the leftists are spineless.
Letting the republicans win is just encouraging the democrats to be more like the republicans.
If the dems don’t want leftist votes and move to the right, that’s a problem with the dems, not leftists.
If you convince everyone who cares about Gaza not to vote, then the parties absolutely cannot afford to have a pro Gaza stance, because it’s electoral suicide - all the people who care about Gaza don’t vote and will the people who just hate on Muslims so.
I convince people to vote for anti-genocide parties like PSL and the Greens. Not supporting Palestine is electoral suicide.
Dawg they’re wiping out Palestine now, under a Democrat. Acting like there’s any daylight between Trump and Kamala in terms of what they actually do is just liberal cope.
Painting a rainbow on the side of the bomb doesn’t make it any less of a bomb.
I apologize, I was rushed and didn’t adequately explain myself. I want to restate the premise on which I made my comment. Israel has a large military and is using it to kill Palestinians right now. I absolutely agree with that. Israel is using weapons provided by the United States, and the transfer of those weapons was authorized by the current Democratic administration. No disagreements there.
My fear is that the military of the United States will become directly involved in the Palestinian genocide. I am afraid of the much larger and better armed US military actively leveling grid squares filled with Palestinian civilians with missiles. What is happening right now is already monstrous. I want the United States to divest and cease its involvement in this genocide at the bare minimum. I want the United States to directly oppose Israel and stop the genocide, using force if necessary. I very much do not want the United States’ involvement to increase. If Donald Trump is elected, an increase in the use of force against Palestine may happen. That is my argument. I absolutely do not believe that the current administration is doing the right thing here. I hate it, and I want it to stop. I just also don’t want it to get worse.
Trump has openly said he would end the war in Ukraine swiftly by giving Ukraine to Putin, his good friend. Ignorance is bliss i guess, at least Kamala isn’t spewing Russian propaganda
And they would be wiping palestine AND ukraine under a Republican, whats your point. It’s shitty to have to pick a lesser evil and americans should protest having to do that, but let’s not pretend they are the same evil.
Trump openly admits he would be doing far far worse
So we need to abandon them entirely and either elect a new party or overthrow the state.
Ah, “thoughts and prayers,” same as always.
Yes, you need to abandon both and elect a new party of overthrow the state. That’s been the solution for the last 30 years, but y’all aren’t going to do that, so forgive me for discussing actual plausible scenarios.
So I’m going to preface this by saying how I feel about the situation. I’m furious that Biden and the Democrats aren’t just… y’know, fucking stopping this shit. I’m furious that the administration isn’t doing more to end the goddamned genocide. It makes me feel sick to think that the executive branch of my country isn’t denouncing what’s happening. The Democrats are supposed to be the party for compassionate people. I consider myself to be a compassionate person, and the Democrats are absolutely failing to represent me.
I’m sure there’s some realpolitik going on there, but like, realpolitik can suck my asshole when my taxes are paying for bombs and missiles that are being used by a different country in an unjust war to kill innocent people in a genocide.
Make no mistake, I want this shit to end right the fuck now. I want Israel to fuck off back to their borders. I want the hostages to be traded, I want Palestine to be a full state in the UN with defensive treaties. I want Bibi and the people who enabled him to be tried for crimes against humanity. I want Israel and the United States to pay reparations and to foot the bill for the rebuilding of Palestinian infrastructure.
I want change. I am tired of the Democrats. Shit, I think there are a lot of people tired of the Republicans. Nobody is happy with the way out system works. I look at other countries with coalition governments and a large number of specific parties and I wish that I could have that. I would absolute love to have a party that represents my values and desires.
With all that said, I just don’t think that we will be able to enact meaningful change in 30ish days. To enact change within the confines our current system, we would need to convince tens of millions of people to vote for a candidate that truly represents them in that timeframe. Given the constricting nature of our two-party system, I think many people wouldn’t know who that is. I certainly don’t know who would represent me. It certainly wouldn’t be Jill Stein, to provide an example of a third party candidate. I’d vote for Bernie Sanders, but he’s not running for president. His election would require tens of millions to write his name on their ballots.
Many of the people who don’t feel represented by our government with regards to Palestine currently vote for the Democrats. If we were to all switch in unison and vote for someone who would truly stop this shit, then we could enact our change. I believe that there’s just no way to do that in a month.
If we try to enact change right now and fail, then we will likely end up with a violent, narcissistic rapist as the head of our government who will continue to implement blatantly christo-fascist policies. Christo-fascists do not like people of the Islamic faith, and Donald Trump has promised to wipe out Palestine if he is elected. He cannot be trusted to act according to what he has previously said (which, speaking from experience, is the fashion of all malignant narcissists who are not being treated for their PD), but there is a chance that he will follow through on his word and will speed up the genocide of the people of Palestine.
There are two primary candidates. One candidate will likely maintain the monstrous, awful, status quo. The other candidate may or may not direct the most powerful military force in the world to level Palestine and order the destruction of every man, woman, and child within its borders. The former gives the people of Palestine more time while to survive while we try to unfuck our system. It’s not a guarantee, but it’s a chance.
Earlier, I said that realpolitik can suck my asshole, and that’s what this feels like. It’s shit and I hate it and it makes me feel gross. None of this brings back the lives of those who have already died, and my choice probably wouldn’t really be appreciated by a Palestinian who is trying to survive the bombs I’m paying for. I won’t shame anyone who cannot live with themselves if they vote for Kamala Harris. People are entitled to their beliefs, and living out of compliance with them can be very harmful. However, I feel compelled to at least present an emotional argument against a vote for a 3rd party candidate (or no vote at all) in this specific situation.
Biden approved the invasion of Lebanon and is sending in US troops and air support. They want this.
Israel helps terrorize enemies of the US empire and secures the Petro-dollar.
So hopes and prayers while you vote for continued genocide, got it. Your feelings don’t make the bombs lighter.
Biden has already ordered US air support and ground troops, the die is cast.
I can’t disagree with the facts presented about the positioning of US troops and the roles Israel and the US play on the geopolitical stage. This is a sick situation and my dread gets a bit deeper every day. I can’t contest that my feelings won’t do anything for the dead and the dying. I can’t ask people to do things that are contrary to their beliefs, and it’s clear that I do not have the capacity or the moral ground to affect the beliefs expressed in this thread.
Then I implore you to abandon the genocidal Biden regime. Side with humanity.
To side with the even more genocidal Trump team? What kind of crazy is this? There isn’t a third option. There’s horrifically bad and there’s even worse and you’re siding with even worse. Come back to reality, Cowbee, it misses you.
The class is holding a vote on whether to put the “slap the ugly kid in the face” guy in charge or the “kick him in the nuts” guy in charge. You’re right to say the kid should be left alone. You’re right to say there should be a third option. You’re right that there should be no slapping. You’re right that the vote is offensive. But you can’t stop the vote and you can’t stop the violence. None of us can.
But fuck you if you can’t bring yourself to say that the kid ought not to be kicked in the nuts and fuck you if you tell all the nice kids not to vote and fuck you if the kid gets kicked in the nuts because of your idiot intervention that only ever talks about the slappers and gives the kick-in-the-nuts crowd a free pass.
Not voting just lets the “kick him in the nuts” guy win every time, which is why the “slap him in the face” guy came up with the slapping policy in the first place.
Of course not Trump, he’s just as genocidal as Harris, Walz, and Biden. You’re siding with genocide, that’s unacceptable.
Pure defeatism, if we have to torture this poor kid then it’s best to tell the teacher to fuck off.
You are still under the grand delusion that the GOP is worse than the DNC on the issue of genocide. They aren’t, this is a bipartisan effort. Biden has even sent in the troops and Walz said Israel needs to expand.
No, this is so far removed from why America supports the genocidal settler-colonial entity. America supports Israel because Israel is a rabid dog on a leash that America uses to terrorize the Middle East and secure the Petro-Dollar, which it uses as the global standard to have a monopoly on Financial Capital, enslaving the Global South with predatory IMF loans.
Please, do some actual thinking.
You’re kidding yourself. The Democrats absolutely have to move right when left wing people refuse to vote, otherwise they lose.
Withdrawing your vote is literally withdrawing left wing influence on politics and anything else is just a complicated lie.
Letting the republicans win is just encouraging the democrats to be more like the republicans.
If you convince everyone who cares about Gaza not to vote, then the parties absolutely cannot afford to have a pro Gaza stance, because it’s electoral suicide - all the people who care about Gaza don’t vote and will the people who just hate on Muslims so.
They can move left if they want left votes.
Do you think the Dems analyze the percentage of votes based on the beliefs of their voters? What fantasy land do you live in? The Dems keep trucking along for their donors and appeal to areas they want votes in from the public. If Leftists always vote for dems as a fixed lever, then Dems will move right to satisfy their donors more because the leftists are spineless.
If the dems don’t want leftist votes and move to the right, that’s a problem with the dems, not leftists.
I convince people to vote for anti-genocide parties like PSL and the Greens. Not supporting Palestine is electoral suicide.
Dawg they’re wiping out Palestine now, under a Democrat. Acting like there’s any daylight between Trump and Kamala in terms of what they actually do is just liberal cope.
Painting a rainbow on the side of the bomb doesn’t make it any less of a bomb.
I apologize, I was rushed and didn’t adequately explain myself. I want to restate the premise on which I made my comment. Israel has a large military and is using it to kill Palestinians right now. I absolutely agree with that. Israel is using weapons provided by the United States, and the transfer of those weapons was authorized by the current Democratic administration. No disagreements there.
My fear is that the military of the United States will become directly involved in the Palestinian genocide. I am afraid of the much larger and better armed US military actively leveling grid squares filled with Palestinian civilians with missiles. What is happening right now is already monstrous. I want the United States to divest and cease its involvement in this genocide at the bare minimum. I want the United States to directly oppose Israel and stop the genocide, using force if necessary. I very much do not want the United States’ involvement to increase. If Donald Trump is elected, an increase in the use of force against Palestine may happen. That is my argument. I absolutely do not believe that the current administration is doing the right thing here. I hate it, and I want it to stop. I just also don’t want it to get worse.
It may also happen under Kamala.
All of this “Kamala might be better than Biden or Trump on genocide” is purely based on vibes and not based on anything she’s ever done or said.
Trump has openly said he would end the war in Ukraine swiftly by giving Ukraine to Putin, his good friend. Ignorance is bliss i guess, at least Kamala isn’t spewing Russian propaganda
It’s based on things the republicans have done and said.
And they would be wiping palestine AND ukraine under a Republican, whats your point. It’s shitty to have to pick a lesser evil and americans should protest having to do that, but let’s not pretend they are the same evil.
Trump openly admits he would be doing far far worse
Downvoted for obvious truths. Must be a tankie instance.