The establishment has failed us and I think that is why we are were we are now. “Everyone Who Was Supposed to Protect You From This Failed Miserably” so sure they failed but we failed as well. Democracy is supposed to be driven from the bottom up, but instead we the people collectively do not pay attention and take responsibility for our our system.
The system was designed from the ground up to make sure only the right kind of people had an actual say in it. The people at the top make damn sure that the people at the bottom have as little freedom to act on their right to vote as possible.
The people at the top will never have your best interests at heart. It’s just not how it works. There is no system where the people in government make sure to include you, and make sure everything is set up fairly, and you can just chill, secure with your voice being un-kept out of it and your inclusion assured. You can either stay engaged and take an active part in forcing the government to be a decent government, or else you can mostly ignore it as we have been doing, and you will get the unfolding horror we are about to experience.
My point is that for many people in this country, that’s practically an impossible task. You can either choose to vote in your gerrymandered district and get fired for taking a day off from work under right to work laws, or you can put food on the table. You can take the time off of work to get a license you may or may not ever use beyond proof under voter ID laws, again at risk of losing your job.
The people who can and don’t because their rights aren’t up for debate every 4 years are one thing. But many of us are already political by necessity, and it means nothing in the end.
What on earth made you think I I was talking about voting? I definitely think it’s necessary as one part of the equation, but just voting for one of the provided candidates and calling it good was exactly what I was describing as deadly inaction.
Because usually when people talk like that, they’re leading up to blaming the Democrats losing on x group (usually either Millennials or a minority) not voting hard enough.
Also because voting is supposed to be the easiest action you can take, but for so many, even that is a risk to the roof over their head and the food in their bellies. The system has been rigged to the point where even the most basic of rights aren’t guaranteed, and we need to provide that for people if they’re ever going to be able to act.
I see. So I said one thing, you decided I meant something totally different and explained back to me, more or less, exactly the same thing I was saying, while pretending I was saying the opposite. Also, you brought “Democrats” into it as far as I can tell for no reason at all, thinking that I was “leading up to” saying something about them when I definitely wasn’t. Well, glad we got that sorted out.
Friendly reminder that part of the ethos of Beehaw is assuming good faith. I don’t see in that response what you’re accusing them of. These are tough times, but giving up our humanity and ability to connect with each other only worsens the problem.
They specifically said they were responding to what I was “leading up to” saying, and skipped ahead to responding to that, the opposite of what I explained multiple times I was actually saying. They also, as of this writing, were still insisting that “the establishment has failed us” needs to be interpreted as “if you people had just voted for the Democrats” when literally no one said that, and indeed we all seem to be agreeing on more or less the exact opposite of that.
I don’t know, maybe me saying “pretending” and general sarcasm was un called for. I’m just trying to be direct. I’ve lost a lot of patience with the people who imagine to themselves what you are saying, and then disagree, instead of reading and then responding. And that’s what happened. That’s not any assumption about their faith level, that’s just what’s written in the comments. If that means I’m not welcome here, so be it.
I thought you were OP, so add their line about democracy being driven from the bottom up to your post and tell me if you can see the “If you people had just voted for the Democrats harder” in there.
Donald Trump will now be the president again. A colossal failure by every Republican, Democratic, legal, corporate, and media institution got us here.
Then coffeetest, who I assume you were thinking is OP maybe?, posted:
The establishment has failed us and I think that is why we are were we are now.
Democracy is supposed to be driven from the bottom up, but instead we the people collectively do not pay attention and take responsibility for our our system.
Democrats are absolutely a part of “the establishment,” and yes, I would fully agree that they failed us. I would also strongly agree with that second “bottom up” statement. Like I say, anyone who’s part of the establishment will always “fail us” unless forced not to, Democrats included, for reasons I already touched on.
It really feels like you’re trying to shoehorn a “counterpoint” about the Democrats being bad into a conversation that was already specifically about how they are bad (along with the rest of the establishment, and also along with the low level of citizen involvement) and what to do about it. Why are you singling out the Democrats so hard right now?
Part of the problem is the will of the people has been superseded by decades of corporate and politicial interests (e.g. Citizens United, Rush Limbaugh, Newt Gingrich, Bush v Gore, etc etc).
Perhaps we should have been fighting back, but this is decades in the making.
Some of us never even had a chance to fight back. This battle was lost before I was born. Bush v Gore was more than 24 years ago, I was barely a child. I wasn’t even alive for Reagan. What can I do now, 40 years too late?
I was running my college newsroom for the 2000 election. I called up an editorial cartoonist at 2 a.m., having already blown deadline by two hours (it would be four by the time we got the flats to the printer), to provide the main art for A1. It remains the only time I have run an editorial cartoon out front.
As these things go, the art I requested was of Gore holding up a paper with a hed of “Bush Wins” (because we were upstyle back in the Dewey/Truman days). Then went with a dek of “Florida holds the Keys” … we finally put the paper to bed at 4 a.m., went out to a 24-hour diner, as was customary, and when we got back to the U-District, the major papers were out.
USA Today (McNews) went with “Florida holds the key,” completely missing how to use that reference. That was the morning I decided to drop out of college and fix this shit. Oh, the irony that I’d later work in automation for Gannett against their wishes (you can’t tell my team that they suddenly need to produce 33% more pages per hour and expect me to not start coding).
Now that I’ve vomited irrelevant verbal diarrhea, the answer is we never had a chance. The system doesn’t like people enjoying their lives, it’s just rent-seeking.
Saying that’s part of the problem is akin to saying the asteroid was part of the problem for dinosaurs. All you’re really missing is the gutting of critical thinking in public education under Reagan.
The establishment has failed us and I think that is why we are were we are now. “Everyone Who Was Supposed to Protect You From This Failed Miserably” so sure they failed but we failed as well. Democracy is supposed to be driven from the bottom up, but instead we the people collectively do not pay attention and take responsibility for our our system.
The system was designed from the ground up to make sure only the right kind of people had an actual say in it. The people at the top make damn sure that the people at the bottom have as little freedom to act on their right to vote as possible.
That is always tradition.
The people at the top will never have your best interests at heart. It’s just not how it works. There is no system where the people in government make sure to include you, and make sure everything is set up fairly, and you can just chill, secure with your voice being un-kept out of it and your inclusion assured. You can either stay engaged and take an active part in forcing the government to be a decent government, or else you can mostly ignore it as we have been doing, and you will get the unfolding horror we are about to experience.
My point is that for many people in this country, that’s practically an impossible task. You can either choose to vote in your gerrymandered district and get fired for taking a day off from work under right to work laws, or you can put food on the table. You can take the time off of work to get a license you may or may not ever use beyond proof under voter ID laws, again at risk of losing your job.
The people who can and don’t because their rights aren’t up for debate every 4 years are one thing. But many of us are already political by necessity, and it means nothing in the end.
Voting harder isn’t going to fix things.
What on earth made you think I I was talking about voting? I definitely think it’s necessary as one part of the equation, but just voting for one of the provided candidates and calling it good was exactly what I was describing as deadly inaction.
Because usually when people talk like that, they’re leading up to blaming the Democrats losing on x group (usually either Millennials or a minority) not voting hard enough.
Also because voting is supposed to be the easiest action you can take, but for so many, even that is a risk to the roof over their head and the food in their bellies. The system has been rigged to the point where even the most basic of rights aren’t guaranteed, and we need to provide that for people if they’re ever going to be able to act.
I see. So I said one thing, you decided I meant something totally different and explained back to me, more or less, exactly the same thing I was saying, while pretending I was saying the opposite. Also, you brought “Democrats” into it as far as I can tell for no reason at all, thinking that I was “leading up to” saying something about them when I definitely wasn’t. Well, glad we got that sorted out.
Friendly reminder that part of the ethos of Beehaw is assuming good faith. I don’t see in that response what you’re accusing them of. These are tough times, but giving up our humanity and ability to connect with each other only worsens the problem.
They specifically said they were responding to what I was “leading up to” saying, and skipped ahead to responding to that, the opposite of what I explained multiple times I was actually saying. They also, as of this writing, were still insisting that “the establishment has failed us” needs to be interpreted as “if you people had just voted for the Democrats” when literally no one said that, and indeed we all seem to be agreeing on more or less the exact opposite of that.
I don’t know, maybe me saying “pretending” and general sarcasm was un called for. I’m just trying to be direct. I’ve lost a lot of patience with the people who imagine to themselves what you are saying, and then disagree, instead of reading and then responding. And that’s what happened. That’s not any assumption about their faith level, that’s just what’s written in the comments. If that means I’m not welcome here, so be it.
I thought you were OP, so add their line about democracy being driven from the bottom up to your post and tell me if you can see the “If you people had just voted for the Democrats harder” in there.
OP posted:
Then coffeetest, who I assume you were thinking is OP maybe?, posted:
Democrats are absolutely a part of “the establishment,” and yes, I would fully agree that they failed us. I would also strongly agree with that second “bottom up” statement. Like I say, anyone who’s part of the establishment will always “fail us” unless forced not to, Democrats included, for reasons I already touched on.
It really feels like you’re trying to shoehorn a “counterpoint” about the Democrats being bad into a conversation that was already specifically about how they are bad (along with the rest of the establishment, and also along with the low level of citizen involvement) and what to do about it. Why are you singling out the Democrats so hard right now?
Part of the problem is the will of the people has been superseded by decades of corporate and politicial interests (e.g. Citizens United, Rush Limbaugh, Newt Gingrich, Bush v Gore, etc etc).
Perhaps we should have been fighting back, but this is decades in the making.
Some of us never even had a chance to fight back. This battle was lost before I was born. Bush v Gore was more than 24 years ago, I was barely a child. I wasn’t even alive for Reagan. What can I do now, 40 years too late?
I was running my college newsroom for the 2000 election. I called up an editorial cartoonist at 2 a.m., having already blown deadline by two hours (it would be four by the time we got the flats to the printer), to provide the main art for A1. It remains the only time I have run an editorial cartoon out front.
As these things go, the art I requested was of Gore holding up a paper with a hed of “Bush Wins” (because we were upstyle back in the Dewey/Truman days). Then went with a dek of “Florida holds the Keys” … we finally put the paper to bed at 4 a.m., went out to a 24-hour diner, as was customary, and when we got back to the U-District, the major papers were out.
USA Today (McNews) went with “Florida holds the key,” completely missing how to use that reference. That was the morning I decided to drop out of college and fix this shit. Oh, the irony that I’d later work in automation for Gannett against their wishes (you can’t tell my team that they suddenly need to produce 33% more pages per hour and expect me to not start coding).
Now that I’ve vomited irrelevant verbal diarrhea, the answer is we never had a chance. The system doesn’t like people enjoying their lives, it’s just rent-seeking.
Limbaugh gave my dad permanent brain damage. to this day I can’t really tell if he’s still in there.
Saying that’s part of the problem is akin to saying the asteroid was part of the problem for dinosaurs. All you’re really missing is the gutting of critical thinking in public education under Reagan.