As someone who tries to eat less meat in general because climate change and cows are basically giant grass eating slightly smellier dogs, I cannot take anyone who unironically uses “carnist” and “bloodmouth” seriously from that point on.
The more names you use to describe “person who eats meat” that you think are insulting and derogatory, the more people roll their eyes and move on with their planned meal.
Also when they add extraneous hyperbole to invalidate themselves.
No, there’s nothing sweet or savory about rotting meat, but it isn’t rotting, now is it?People that eat meat do not eat rotting carcasses (RFK aside) the same way vegans don’t eat rotten vegetables.
Yeah I’m basically in the same boat. I call myself a half assed vegetarian - I don’t typically buy meat for myself but if I go somewhere and meat’s already been ordered I won’t make a big fuss. I think meat is bad for the environment and cruel to the animals, and want people to care more about that, but it’s an emotional issue that needs to be handled as such.
It is annoying that some people are so emotionally invested in meat that it’s a hot button triggering topic, but that’s how it is.
Some left wing people will call the USA like “burgerland” or “ameriKKKa” and I’m just like that’s not going to win any converts. People who aren’t already firmly in your camp are going to stop listening.
if you’re very passionate about something it’s easy to use strong words, and i think while it’s annoying to me it’s generally acceptable if used like this. I can’t personally develop any strong feelings about vegetarianism or veganism, but I’ve had my passionate political moments in my life (and still do sometimes) and I guess it’s kind of respect worthy, at least when I myself can see the logic of the argument or even agree to an extent.
Used to be I would get pretty frenzied when confronted with what I could fathom about capitalism, so I can empathize.
Extremism definitely pushes reasonable people away from any group.
Humans are generalizers at our core. We will assume everyone in a group is like the worst member of a group and move on without a conscious thought on the matter.
So the extremism of the meat industry is pushing people away from eating meat?
I’m still waiting to see this play out.
“Bloodmouth” is clearly trying to be a slur (although it’s the first time I see the term). “Carnist” however is just a neologism with meaning “someone who eats meat as part of their alimentation”.
Words exist to convey meaning, that’s all. Now vegans or vegetarians can be aggressive towards carnists, that’s for sure. Nothing to do with vocabulary.
Vocabulary has a lot to do with it, no one wants to be called a slur and they use carnist as a slur
Then what word would you like people to use for “person eating meat as part of their alimentation”? I ask in good faith, I’m really curious to know your opinion.
I don’t think that “meat-eater” is necessarily better than “carnist” 😕 Or a negative like “non-vegeterian”? A bit of a mouthful.
Omnivore is pretty neutral
Alright, that’s pretty good. I wanna nitpick by saying that vegetarians are also omnivorous because omnivorous is digesting “plant and animal matter”, but I don’t know if it would be in good faith :p Thanks for the discussion.
“Carnist” however is just a neologism with meaning “someone who eats meat as part of their alimentation”.
that is not what it means
Ugh I hate this attitude. People that say “words are just words” have never had a slur yelled inches from their face.
If words are just words, then what is hate speech?
Sounds like the anti-woke sentiment of being more racist in spite, because some doesn’t like being called out for their behaviour.
Would you prefer the rational argument, that the meat industry fuels climate change and speeds up the destruction of our planet?
… they literally raised that point.
Oh wow, I am dumb. 😂
Yea reminds me of people who think it’s an epic own to say they’ll eat two steaks instead when talking to vegans. Congrats on worsening your health I guess (among other things)
My reflexive response is “no you won’t.” If they wanted 2 steaks, they were going to do so regardless.
If people were so easily manipulated, then I would start leaning heavily into reverse psychology.
Carnist is just the word for people who eat meat, it’s not vegans’ fault you decided it’s an insult. Suggest a non insulting word.
Omnivore?
(Well Carnivore would be meat only, Omivore is everything, Herbivore is veg only. But yeah.)
Yeah, but vegans also don’t use animal products as well (and sometimes products that may hurt animals secondarily) so it’s a descriptor for not just diet but lifestyle. And vegetarianism allows for animal byproducts but not meat, so also not omnivorous I think?
Drag:
Carnist is just the word for people who eat meat, it’s not vegans’ fault you decided it’s an insult. Suggest a non insulting word.
You:
Omnivore
Me:
(Well Carnivore would be meat only, Omivore is everything, Herbivore is veg only. But yeah.)
Were we not having a discussion on the correct word for meat eater, which would be carnivore? I’m confused
Nonetheless, -vore as a root word means devour, carni- means flesh/meat, omni- means all, and herb- means, well, herbs. These words all only describe the animal by their diet, not also their sociological choices.
That’s a scientific term, not a lifestyle choice
Wait, you’re the troll who insists being called drag is the same as someone trans wanting to be called s/he, aren’t you?
I don’t know the other user, but this is irrelevant to this conversation.
Omnivore is biological designation of the type of foods that our bodies are biologically equipped to handle. Note that “capable of eating/digesting meat” does not mean must eat meat. Animals in that category would be “obligate carnivores.”
“Meateater” is probably the more common term for someone who makes the lifestyle choice to consume animal products. But “carnist” is intended to encompass non-food uses (e.g. wearing leather). While it may be used as a pejorative by the vegan community, any term is likely to be used that way (including omnivore or meateater) when describing a group that one views with contempt.
But veganism can use leather and eat meat in the appropriate circumstances come to think of it.
Edit: just to be clear, this was something I was told by other Vegans, including in person. Roadkill or an existing carcass of an animal that dies naturally for example are fine.
No, drag’s not a troll, just an ordinary trans person with unusual pronouns. If anyone here is outraged about trans people literally just minding their own business, it isn’t drag. It would have to be someone who brought up neopronouns just to complain about them.
Ahhh, you are that person that misrepresents trans people and makes them look bad on purpose! You just forgot your schtick for a moment. Nevermind then, your opinion is meaningless.
Yea man, finding out that Drag is a vegan surprised no one. It’s just another moral high ground to argue with Internet strangers from to feel better about what I imagine is a very uninteresting life.
God forbid trans people talk about something other than being trans
wrong in every way possible
That’s not even what carnist means…
Then we use the liquid remains of their children to coat them in crumbs.
…of Crushed plants, that we infested with LIVING FUNGUS, BURNED and them CRUSHED THEM AGAIN!
Is the fungus supposed to be Cheese? Because Yeast is a Bacterial Strain.
EDIT: Nope, turns out it is sort of a fungus. Fungus needs to learn to stay in its fuckin lane, I’m getting tired of its shit.
It’s apparently fungus, I originally wrote Bacteria, then thought about it, googled it and edited my post :P
Nope.
Was hat der Merz in Afrika vermisst?
Das selbe wie überall. Eine Seele
you sure about that?
no
Periods*
chickens don’t have periods
I fucking lost it and laughed out loud at work. I had to explain it to a co-worker. Good thing he is a fan of dark humor and not a vegan.
I’m out here sharing biology facts. what’s the joke?
The whole thread and post is the joke and the unexpected biology facts just got to me, I may be under way too much stress lately, I tend to over react.
One of the saddest truths about aggresive vegans is that, no matter what they say or write, normal folk won’t care. Yes, we skin 'em, we fry 'em, we eat 'em. Exactly. No matter how you dress that, that’s normal. And you trying to dress it as disgusting is only making it sound more epic.
If you prefer a more aggressive approach, I could fry you.
I bet I would be tasty
If you give me a quick death by a bolt through the brain, you can do whatever you want with what’s left.
I’ll agree that factory farming is abhorrent though. Maybe try something about being locked into a small box not even large enough to turn around in, stuck next to your own filth, etc etc.
Yeah, sounds horrible. 😔
99% of meat comes from factory farms in the US. For Europe, it’s around 75%. Unless you know where the meat came from and how it treats its animals, you can safely presume the source animal was tortured for it. Calling factory farming abhorrent doesn’t mean much if you still regularly pay for it to continue.
I don’t think so. In fact, I think most people are very well aware that vegans are essentially right. Inflicting suffering for personal enjoyment is something most people would reject. That’s why indifference towards veganism and vegans isn’t enough. You have to deflect the negative emotions that this would normally trigger in most people. In this respect, it’s only slightly different from MAGAs mocking deported people with Studio Ghibli memes. You turn cruelty into something funny or quirky so that it becomes bearable. This relieves the burden on those who want to cling to it.
As often as Herman had witnessed the slaughter of animals and fish, he always had the same thought: in their behaviour towards creatures, all men were Nazis. The smugness with which man could do with other species as he pleased exemplified the most extreme racist theories, the principle that might is right.
Do you think this way of dressing it makes you sound epic?
If I thought that fish had deep meaningful personal lives in Europe and thousands of years of culture, families that love and care about them, harvesting them might cause me a moments pause, but you’re making a strawman argument. Comparing fishing to deathcamps is fucking insane.
That quote is by Isaac Bashevis Singer, a Polish Jew who fled to the USA to escape the Nazis. And he didn’t think it was insane.
I do
Well that’s because you’re drawing a false equivalence between the factory farming he criticised and a guy fishing in a lake on the weekends.
I also think comparing factory farming to the Holocaust is absurd. The Holocaust was not a vital food source for large portions of the world. I don’t like factory farming, but you and a Holocaust survivor don’t have the merit to make that equivalence in my opinion.
And please miss me with “the world doesn’t need factory farming if we all go vegan” bullshit, I eat meat and you’ll never convince me, or likely anyone not to by making such absurd arguments. It’s why nobody takes vegans seriously.
Also, how do you know a vegan marathon runner trains CrossFit?
They’ve told you.
I mean is it really that absurd? For most people in the US, meat is really not necessary. The only argument would be it’s cheaper, and the reason it’s cheaper is because it’s subsidized. I’m not going to call out the starving guy in Africa for killing a cow or farming pigs, nor the poor person buying the cheap meat. I will call out a person who could swap off meat with minimal changes still supporting the animal industry, and the people who vote for the subsidies.
I say it’s not an absurd comparison because there are some 300 million animals going through factory farming every year, where some animals don’t even have room to stand or turn around and get huge painful wounds all over their body. Same with broiler chickens basically being unable to stand and having heart attacks because their organs are basically being crushed from birth. Not to mention the people working at animal processing facilities end up scarred mentally from seeing blood and death 8 hours a day, where instead they could just be working on a normal farm. This on the scale of 300 million animals… idk like it’s maybe not the same level of brutality but the scale of the suffering is just massive.
The Holocaust was not a vital food source for large portions of the world
That’s technically correct. The Nazis did use concentration camps for slave labour to help their war economy, but slave labour was only a vital food source in other points in history. Drag thinks the Nazis deserved to lose the war, and adults who relied on slaves for food like the colonial Americans deserved to starve. And drag doesn’t draw a distinction between human slavery and animal slavery when drag says that. Drag wants to prevent suffering, and doesn’t care if it’s humans or animals who are suffering. Killing innocents to feed a predator only results in the predator getting hungry again in a few days or weeks. This is an easy trolley problem.
(one of) the problem(s) with Nazis and the Holocaust is precisely that it treated people like animals. that’s what makes it wrong.
Yes, treating anything the way humans treat animals is wrong. Isaac Bashevis Singer lived through the holocaust as a Jewish man, and learned firsthand what suffering is inflicted on the animals. He then wrote this quote.
treating anything the way humans treat animals is wrong
I doubt it.
We are animals. Simplistic in many ways many animals eat meat, and that’s ok. We do it too. We should do it much less from an environmental standpoint. Meat is good to eat, however there is nothing wrong with not eating meat. Plants feel too, not like us for sure but they communicate damage to one another.
Animals also extremely commonly rape and murder, and humans do it too. But we generally try to avoid animal instincts that cause suffering, even if many people naturally would do those things.
Yes. All of this to say, humans are animals. Thanks.
Yes and just because we do it doesn’t make it okay, no? Humans kill each other just like animals, but I’m not going to use that as a justification for killing someone.
Appeal to nature fallacy
Are you implying that people aren’t animals?
No, drag’s implying people don’t have to do something just because it’s natural. Dying of dysentery is natural, but we try to avoid that. That’s why your argument that we should eat meat because it’s natural is silly
Lynchings were normal, should we bring them back too? Normality doesn’t equal what’s right.
should we bring them back
only for people that insist on cheapening human suffering by comparing people to livestock.
It is possible to care about human suffering and also animal suffering. I can say supporting factory farming is horrible, and the way we treat some people is horrible. Most sane people don’t want animals tortured, and are outraged when someone hurts their pet, but then also support factory farming because having a pig in a 3ft by 3ft cage sitting unable to move for its entire life is based actually.
you can care about them both, but you can’t do anything effective about them both simultaneously
How about a bill that removes subsidies for meat and gives subsidies to fruits and vegetables…? Now you have healthier people and less animal suffering
At least animals don’t create fascist dictators who threaten nuclear war every time they feel insecure about their small penises.
Not really sure why it’s taken for granted that animals are such low forms of life that being compared to them in any manner is a horrifying insult (it isn’t). And no, I’m not vegan I’m just not so brainwashed I cannot imagine empathy for animals.
being compared to them in any manner
I’m talking about a specific manner
it’s taken for granted that animals are such low forms of life
no one said that
Implying that comparing humans to “livestock”, a word whose purpose itself is to demean, is “cheapening” human life then yes that was absolutely said
the purpose of the term livestock is to differentiate between things farmers raise.
nobody said that. also, “livestock” lmao
Yes. On the rich.
No matter how you dress that, that’s normal
Doesn’t make it morally pure in any manner whatsoever
Really just depends on which morals you use.
People are so fucking touchy about their perceived right to eat meat without ever considering the objective realities concerning it
Which objective realities are that?
That mass scale factory farming is horrifically cruel. Indicative of what I’m saying that I would even need to type this.
I mean, sure. I wouldn’t call it an objective reality since you can’t really measure cruelness, but I guess we can agree. But it is something I have considered.
The reality of it is objective fact. How people feel about it is subjective, but I find it disturbing that it’s not pretty universally seen as monstrous behavior.
deleted by creator
I suddenly want a chicken sandwich
Keep yourself safe
Dissolve in the acids inside of meee*
Drenched in your children Rolled in your food
Dethklok’s next album revealed
Excellent!
I think it’s totally natural for humans to eat meat. But also definitely more moral to abstain from eating it.
If the situation were reversed, chickens would eat us without a second thought.
I’ve seen a rooster eat a chick before, it was horrifying.
Because the chicken is incapable of acting morally. Humans should hold themselves to a higher standard.
Congrats, you have the morality of a chicken?
Sorry best we can do is horrors beyond your comprehension. As is human tradition.
Seeing what some vegetarians and vegans eat instead of meat makes me laugh. One half is exotic stuff flown in from the other side of the world at a vast expense of the environment, the other half is Ultra High Processed Food laced with chemicals most people cannot even pronounce…
I think there is a way to create ‘ethical’ meat through giving animals good lives and having laws around the ages they can be killed, etc.
However I don’t think it’s possible due to the costs and land required to do this, so unfortunately, I don’t think there is any ethical way to produce meat these days. The most ethical is probably hunting to prevent overpopulation.
Hot take, people who hunt and garden are far more ethical eaters than vegans who are bound to industrial food systems.
I am perfectly fine with the knowledge that my stomach is a graveyard.
At most, my stomach is a funeral home.
If you eat meat and it remains permanently in your body, please seek medical attention.
“Bloodmouth” is one of my trigger words. As soon as I hear it I know the speaker is a complete fucking moron and stop listening. From that point on all I hear is mwah mwah mwah like Charlie Brown’s teacher. Feckless background noise.
Although I have to say “bloodmouth’s graveyard stomach” hits SUPER hard
It does.
I’m so sorry but this is now one of my favorite new words
If they think bloodmouth is an insult they should see harvest day on my chicken farm.
It is up there with the time I heard someone call my straight male friend a “Pussy Fucker” to their face.
Schreddert in Hühnchen
Welp.
DU. MACHST. DEN. KAKAO!!
Followed by a pig squeal
Someone good at slurs should come up with a better one
