• NoneOfUrBusiness@kbin.social
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    11 months ago

    The reason people believe Gazan death tolls is that they’re found to be reliable by almost every organization working in the region. And the reason most people refuse to believe what Israel says without confirmation is because they’ve been caught lying on multiple occasions, many times going as far as fabricating evidence (remember the Al-Shifa calendar)?

    • crashfrog@lemm.ee
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      11 months ago

      They’re “found reliable”, but not actually checked. Like, nobody actually checks Hamas’ numbers; they just “confirm” them.

        • crashfrog@lemm.ee
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          11 months ago

          They don’t, though. Check. They can’t. No independent body can operate freely in Gaza, it’s under Hamas control. They know that Hamas can rescind whatever meager access they have, and so they figure that humanitarian purpose is better satisfied by preserving access by not angering Hamas.

          But they don’t have access to strike sites, they don’t have access to morgues. Islam requires the dead be buried by nightfall, so there’s simply no opportunity for independent observers to actually verify body counts. They’re just demographically “verified” - “oh, we know about that many people lived in the apartment block, so X is a plausible figure for deaths.” But that’s not confirmation.

          • girlfreddy@lemmy.world
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            11 months ago

            No independent body can operate freely in Gaza, it’s under Hamas control.

            Kind of like no independent journalists can investigate in Gaza about Israeli-built tunnels under a hospital under IDF control, right?

            This is one of the few both-sides arguments that can be legitimately made.

            Never mind the fact that Palestinians haven’t had an election in Gaza in almost 20 years and a number of elected officials are in Israeli jails.

            • kick_out_the_jams@kbin.social
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              11 months ago

              Never mind the fact that Palestinians haven’t had an election in Gaza in almost 20 years

              since Hamas took over

              • girlfreddy@lemmy.world
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                11 months ago

                Well ofc since Hamas was elected since Hamas is the ruling party now.

                I thought that would be self-evident.

            • crashfrog@lemm.ee
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              11 months ago

              Kind of like no independent journalists can investigate in Gaza about Israeli-built tunnels under a hospital under IDF control, right?

              Kind of the opposite, in fact? The IDF brought in independent journalists to the tunnels, proving that they’d been right about them all along.

            • pingveno@kbin.social
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              11 months ago

              Kind of like no independent journalists can investigate in Gaza about Israeli-built tunnels under a hospital under IDF control, right?

              Okay, so explain this: why would Israel lie about the tunnels? It makes perfect sense that Hamas would operate largely in tunnels including under vital infrastructure, tunnels are used for smuggling in other places around the world, and bringing the IDF into hospitals is a huge headache in terms of PR. So what’s in it for Israel?