Is Drew Carey turning into George Lucas?

There’s different degrees of harm. We all live in society, that means our choices impact other people. The electronics powering the infrastructure we’re using are full of cobalt picked by child hands. You can’t eat almonds without contributing to death.

There’s a significant difference between punching someone in the face vs posting a Facebook article. And in my opinion, trying to exert control over the expression of others is a much more deliberate and direct act.

Sorry, I’m going to try to be less argumentative 😅

Misinformation has a direct cost in lives and money. So it seems to me to be morally good to stop it.

I personally consider things like freedom of thought, freedom of choice, and freedom of expression to be pretty sacred, and to restrict those is a massive ethics issue.

Either way, no one is a citizen of Facebook or Meta. Those platforms can police their content in whatever lawful ways they desire, and if they want to police misinformation that’s no one’s business but their own.

The problem is we do have government putting pressure on tech companies to implement these polices. Zuckerberg has been infront of Congress multiple times. To me that’s just a loop hole.

And why can’t I have an opinion on how Meta polices their information?

People can still consume any information they like. But expecting and requiring Facebook or Meta to be that place seems pretty silly to me.

In this instance though Meta is downgrading their department.

okay, okay, okay, okay… So hear this… We don’t even hold our elected officials accountable for what they say, but we’re pushing restrictions on what citizens can talk about?

Fuck that shit.

People are pissed about Trump, and anti-vax, and whatever else, and are scared of the effect of misinformation, but have you notice our demographics haven’t actually changed? Neither Republicans nor Democrats really have a hand up in elections.

So why are we restricting people’s freedoms of what information they consume?

Lol! So this won’t get to OP, but if you’re ever in this position, call their bluff and submit something to the labour board.

Even if you don’t win, if this is a corporation the company is going to HATE the manager just for being put in that position.

Even if it’s privately owned, no owner wants to be put in that position.

Just a rando passing by. I wanted to say I really appreciate you breaking this down. This type of head to head debating is what I was really hoping to find on Lemmy.

I never called Bob at the hardware store ruling class 🙃 but the ruling class is patriarchal and composed of men.

Okay… So previously in our discussion you dismissed systemic misandry, because “it’s not a power structure”.

If Bob isn’t considered apart of the ruling class, then the oppression of Bob, and other men by the ruling class IS a power structure, and fits your definition of systemic misandry.

And by all means you don’t have to engage with me. The only thing I’m really expecting you to teach me is the biases in your rhetoric, so no pressure.

Men literally can’t suffer from a power structure by your definition of those terms. It’s not that men don’t experience oppression from power structures, it’s that your definition of power structures is oppression by a “ruling class”, and you see men as that “ruling class”, so by your definition they can’t be oppressed by their own power structure. It has nothing to do with men as individuals.

THIS is why you need to expand your perspective. That line of reasoning is complete mental gymnastics. It’s friggen hilarious how feminists justify their own bigiotry, and reinforce the perceptives they claim cause so much harm.

Like you may not believe it’s moral, but your fundamental perspective is “men are in charge”. I find it like… interesting as fuck that this is what feminism has looped back to. Shit like this makes me think that as a species we are really just too petty or too stupid to get past our own biases.

I’m really disappointed in your inability to confront your own biases. You set definitions, I meet them, and then you just move the goal posts.

How you call Bob at the hardware store “the ruling class” is BEYOND me. 99% of men don’t have any sort of ruling authority. So you’ve created a term that holds men to a level of responsibility they don’t have, and then you use that to disqualify the actuality of misandry in society… Fuuuck…

Thank you for taking the time to lay out your biases for me. You’ve really helped me breakdown this shit, and I appreciate that. Sorry for any anxiety I’ve given you, but seriously… you need to expand your perspective outside of feminist rhetoric.

I am aware of what issues affect men.

I don’t see how you can make that claim at all when you don’t even read male forums, much less can’t even put a vague number on your own exposure.

Here’s a good article from a woman that lived as a man for 18 months.

Multiple competing perspectives are crucial. You are not immune from bias.

Its not that I don’t consider it to be misandry its that its not systemic against men as a class. It is not a power structure

But… toxic toxic masculinity is systemic against men as a class, and it does operate on the level of societial and institutional pressures. That fits the critia for a power structure.

And 99% of men are not “the ruling class”, so I just don’t see why you would even make that generalization. Especially when the vast majority of issues we talk about are dependent on societial norms, not institutional structures.

Is that the crux of your argument? Until women hold the balance of leadership roles systemic misandry isn’t a thing?

There exists biases and discrimination against men, but nothing that does so using the structure of a system and through institutional power.

So you wouldn’t actually consider societal pressures against men as misandry? You wouldn’t consider the structures that force men to disregard their own emotions to take on provider roles as misandry. You don’t see men commiting sucide at 3 times the rate of women significant enough of a qualifier? You don’t see how influences like these connect back to men having to be “hard”. You don’t see how men are used and disregarded by society? Like I am literally missing a piece of my body, and it’s just socially accepted.

Like men aren’t just in power, men are pushed towards power.

And… I just realized you acknowledge toxic masculinity. So toxic masculinity does effect all men, on societial and institutional levels, which fits your definition of misandry.

[…] biases and discrimination against men […] using the structure of a system and through institutional power.

I don’t take it to be criticising women’s issues, but rather the bias.

You should definitely take the leap! If you can approach male spaces without bias you’d gain deeper perspective into these issues.

And your definition of misandry?

Can you define your use of misogyny?

So a bunch of men experience the same thing completely independently from each other, and you’re here just assuming there aren’t systemic processes at play? Like do you just think men have some biological affinity for suits and ties? or Jeans and T-shirts? Or it’s just a coincidence or what? Like we live in a world of cause and effect, everything you see in society is a matter of systemic influences.

Which isn’t true, and we can easily see why when discussing the systemic issue of misogyny and the way women have their bodies policed throughout their entire lives and by their family friends coworkers peers and society at large including all forms of media. Body image issues for women are related to societal misogyny, and affected by continuous sexual harassment and assault starting when we are children. It happens everywhere, including from your own family.

I have a question! Why is it that when men police men it’s toxic masculinity, but when women police women it’s misogyny?

Anyways I disagree with your entire premise basically because of toxic masculinity. Men are degraded into the ground to the point that they aren’t even willing to self express. If you look at society you’ll see women have countless different, more expressive options for expressing themselves. Yes they recieve criticism, they also recieve support.

Like all I did was paint my nails, and wear bright colours, and yesterday I got called fruity 😂

Like have you ever had to worry that painting your nails could cost you your job?

As a woman and my friend group being mostly women anything that affects women I hear about. I have listened plenty of times to men talking about the problems they face.

Could you put a number on it? Like… for every 10 studies/articles on women’s issues you read, how many men’s issues studies would you be reading? 10 to 10? 10 to 5? 10 to 2?

Or let’s say you’ve spent idk… 200 hours looking into women’s issues, talking to women, etc… How many hours have you listened to men, or researched their issues? 200:200, 200:100, 200:50? (not counting debates) Your best ballpark.

Like how many men’s forums are you subscribed to?

Oh yeah, remember that box office failure that no one talked about? Magic Mike? I hope Channing Tatum’s ego has recovered.