The most famous forms of Holocaust denial and revisionism tend to focus on Jews, casting doubt, for example, on how many were exterminated in the camps. But denying the impact the Nazis had on the other groups they targeted, including queer and trans people, disabled people and Romani people, is still Holocaust denial. Maybe someone should tell J.K. Rowling.
Conservative are also the people looking to save various fauna and flora from extinction due to unbridled human activities.
Are they also a plague?
You should avoid bringing negative connotations to words that can be or are a force for good.
Rename the evil if you want, but don’t turn away the good as you focus solely on the bad.
No. “Conservative” and “conservationist” are two very different words with two very different definitions. You seem to be confusing the two.
Oh! I thought they were referring to hunters or something.
You’re partially right. I am confusing the two, but not the spirit of their meaning, which is “to conserve”. Conservation is a force for good, but this political party thing is only focused on the bad.
Why let it occupy the entire meaning and overshadow its better uses? To say “Conservative” with disgust is to ignore its potential for better uses.
Why change things when you can argue semantics?
This is about changing things. But we’re talking about different things to change it seems.
And yes, semantics.
I appreciate that there has been some confusion regarding the use of this word. And I also appreciate your sentiment that it would be nice to focus on the positive. However, so much evil throughout history has come from conservatism, that the word weighs heavily with negative connotation that should not be removed.
In social context, nothing good in the history of mankind has ever come from conservatism. Nothing at all.
Here is a non-political definition, for some clarification. Note the lack of preservation of nature.
conservative /kən-sûr′və-tĭv/ adjective
The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, 5th Edition • More at Wordnik
(My apologies for the American dictionary reference in a thread about an English person. It was just the easiest one to copy/paste on a phone.)
Yes, these are my thoughts on the word’s meaning, in large.
A moderate and cautious approach to change.
Absolute refusal of change is the extremism part of this definition that seems to be viewed as its defining attribute instead.
Edit: Maybe this view of mine is flawed, but it’s how I see a Conservative party should be. To avoid unchecked progress, maintain stability and implement only rigorously verified policies, in small, but certain steps. Their core tenets are moderation and cautiousness.
Lol no
Viewing words that prescriptively is kinda insane and willfully ignorant.
When someone says “gay”, do you start arguing about how “it has nothing to do with sexuality, it just means carefree’, ‘cheerful’, or ‘bright and showy’.”?
Cmon. Cmon. CMON
It means both. And both meanings started as positive, then one meaning became the focus and the other completely ignored.
That’s what you should be upset about.
Fair enough. If politically conservative people legislated with a moderate, cautious demeanor, I would respect that. In fact, I might even side with them on several policies.
What would the moderate and cautious approach have been to gain independence from colonialists?
What would the moderate and cautious approach have been to ending slavery?
What would the moderate and cautious approach have been to giving workers basic rights?
Shore up the defenses, create logistics trains, be certain of the allies available, initiate battle when ready and after all diplomatic recourses have failed.
Have a standing replacement framework, compensate losses, ratify laws to support equal rights in its entirety, reduce support of transgressors in public eyes over time. There were few slave owners. Turning the masses against them wouldn’t have been difficult.
Prepare alternative replacement in case of refusal, then support unionizing while giving subsidies to encourage participation.
Ideally, it’s supposed to advance slowly while keeping everyone relatively happy and stable.
A government is supposed to consider all of its citizens and that means taking into consideration the consequences of failure, while also planning how to remedy them.
I’m sorry… are you actually going against revolutions against colonial powers?
And if turning the masses against slave owners wouldn’t have been difficult, why did a war have to be fought over it?
You asked for a moderate and cautious approach. I gave you an example of one.
If you draw from this more than what it is, then that’s on you, not me.
The war in the US at least was fought due to a poor approach on the subject.
The UK, at the very least if anything, managed to end slavery peacefully on its soil.
The big problem about discussing conservatives / Conservatives here is that this board seems quite US-focused. The British Conservative Party (the current party of UK government) pretty much came in to existence back in the day to “conserve” things and put a check on “progressive / liberal” policies. Conservative means something different whether your context is American-politics or whether it’s politics-politics.
I think context is more important and in this context disgust is the correct emotion.
I’ve found that context matters little when emotion takes precedence.
So which of your emotions made you ignore the context?
Pity.
Well time to pack up the pity party, Lath. There’s context to consider.
Nah. Context rarely matters.
Oh my fuck, clearly the context is lost on you.
Conservative is yet another word that’s been commandeered to the ends of the right wing. They have a long history of distorting or outright willfully misinterpreting words and symbols. Their use of the punisher logo is a classic example
That’s the thing though, anyone can twist words to fit one’s view. So why accept their vilification? Why jump into that pot of vitriol and say “yes, this is how it has to be”?
To believe “conservative” branded political parties are conflated with the English connotations of the word is quite frankly falling for propaganda at this point. Politically speaking “conservative” has a unique meaning that has nothing really to do with financial prudence or slow and measured progress. What they seek to “conserve” is old power structures. Heirachies founded on intergenerational wealth or old exclusionary policy that created privileged citizen classes. Sometimes they dress it up in the mask of “traditional values” but it’s all basically just smoke and mirrors. It’s why they attack inclusive policy, civil rights fights including education policies, social safety nets and tax policies that target wealthier citizens. They have to “conserve” the pecking order where old money remains uncontested power, new money casts the illusion that upward mobility it possible and nobody is allowed to mention that they are being treated as a second class citizen.
The idea of self branding yourself a “conservative” serves by flattering ones own ego because as a label it’s primed to make one feel reasonable and measured… But. It’s just fluff.
Lol bro really doesn’t know the difference between conservatives and conservationists.
even if they were the same word… context has meaning.
in a politics news sub, talking about politics; you’d have to be a moron to conflate conservatives [individuals who espouse conservative politics] with something else.
One, this is regular news. Nowhere in the title of the community or the rules listed does it say only politics news, far as I’ve seen.
Two, you’d have to be a moron to consider people who don’t think the same way you do as morons.
Three, morons are allowed to participate in society. If you disagree with this, well, good thing we’re in the right place to discuss discrimination.
context.
You wouldn’t expect an article about MC Hammer, some one saying “its hammer time!” to mean home improvement. it’s a news sub, and the article is about politics, not wildlife conservation. you’re being obtuse.
That could actually be a great The Onion theme.
Inflamatory - but ambiguos - headline with the article jumping from theme to theme through homonyms and context changes
Homonym: The Game from 30 Rock.
Only if we get the construction vest guy from the Village people to do a cover. Is he still alive?
Why not? Here’s an example.
“It’s Hammer Time”
MC Hammer, famously known for hit song decides to change careers and go into home improvement.
It’s completely in line with media expectations.
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sheesh you have thoroughly drunk the kool aid, wake up
This makes me think of that woman who was insistent that she was not a musician because she makes music, not magic
That’s conservationists. Different word, different meaning, and most importantly different people for the most part
Hey can everyone please assume good faith. This is an easy enough mistake to make if you are ESL.