Can’t shake the feeling that swapping panels 1 and 3 would make more sense.
3 2 1 then 4
That is the exact same thing…
Clockwise from bottom left maybe
i think any order would work
Every healthy society requires a robust guillotine maintenance capability, ideally across all competencies.
the amount of billionaire taint licking in this post is depressingly high.
the hilarious thing about these apologists is that the majority of the 1% wouldn’t even piss on them if they were on fire. we are beneath them.
I support this idea. Invite most of the world’s nations’ leaders, too. I think the Met-gala attendees and G20 summit attendees might be a good starting point all-in-all. Then seize the means of production etc., you know how it goes.
Yes, kill them, by taxing them out of existence.
This would be ideal but I’m skeptical that it’s actually possible. Bribes are cheaper than taxes, so I think they’d likely just prevent the taxes from happening by greasing the correct palms.
Well yeah, that’s exactly what’s happened for at least the past 50 years. In 1968 corporations were paying 53% of their profits in taxes, and billionaires were paying 94% around that time! Btw, if you’re making billions, paying 94% still leaves you richer than most…
Contrast that to today, where the system is so obviously broken during a time when Amazon is paying less in total taxes than a fry cook at McDonald’s.
It would need to be done with actually no loopholes, and meaningful enforcement of consequences for those who would try to cheat (perhaps the guillotine).
one big issue is everyone goes “you can’t tax stocks!” and then billionaires take a loan against the stocks with the unrealized gains as collateral. So we’d need to start classifying a loan as a realized gain of the collateral against this, with an exception for mortgages on primary domiciles, maybe also a “first million dollars are exempt,” calculated on the full debt of the borrower, not per loan. I can’t imagine anyone taking out more than $1M in debt against a properly they don’t live in is not the rich we need to be taxing.
Contrast that to today, where the system is so obviously broken during a time when Amazon is paying less in total taxes than a fry cook at McDonald’s.
Wait…by percentage, or by dollar amount?
Dollar amount for some markets and some years - big corps do accounting magic and end up net negative, which they can calculate against profits in another fiscal year under some circumstances, paying 0% tax
Mostly by percentage, but I wouldn’t be surprised for the other one.
Don’t they already just avoid paying taxes by not having a salary and just using bank loans or something? So they have no actual money in the bank
No, no, we can’t be mean to the rich, that will upset them 🥺
You don’t need a mechanized execution machine to kill three people. You need it to kill the crowd of people.
And historically that’s what it was used for. It was used BY the rich AGAINST the poor.
It was pretty much just one of the options used for death penalty from what I understand. Then there’s the revolution bit but otherwise it was a state execution method used as late as 1977.
Whoever made this is needs help, murder is not good
Slaying dragons is self defense and defense of others, not murder.
There’s an air of truth to that in that, I want them to be tortured first. Don’t build the wood pyres so high at the start. Make sure the fire slowly creeps up to their vital organs. We should also flash scenes of violence and poverty caused by their actions into their retinas as they boil into greedy little pools of charred carbon.
To answer the question you’re thinking, like a baby, every night. Zero issues.
I kind of agree with this type of objection. But note that the instrument of death is a guillotine. That hearkens back to a time of radical societal change, the French Revolution.
Additionally guillotines were seen as a more humane method of execution than the hangings and manual beheading of pre-Enlightenment France.
It’s called political satire.
I can imagine you’re a fucking blast at parties.
I like how you think this is a realistic scenario.
If you ever scoffed at the word ‘ableism’ observe it here being used as a weapon
The classic lemmy response:
“its not about the murder it’s symbolic of revolution”
“um it’s satire”
“murder is good sometimes”
all in reply to one comment
I’m sure in a future thread we’ll get a comment saying something like:
“No one on Lemmy is saying we should murder billionaires”
I am absolutely saying that, feel free to quote me.
Killing billionaires is both immoral and won’t solve the problem. We need to kill the capitalist system that allows people to become billionaires.
And hoarding money that would provide housing, food, and medicine while people are dying or barely living paycheck to paycheck for the lack of those things isn’t immoral? Lick the boot harder. They might give you a fucking dîme.
What? No, why would you assume those things about me. There are no ethical billionaires.
Do you think billionaires operate in a moral fashion? That their journey was one paved to the top by the ethical treatment of others?
Perhaps we need a new morality because I find that operating inside of prescribed moral bounds is shooting yourself in the foot when making this particular kind of argument.
You operate morally, they use every dirty trick in the book, including killing you.
Just because some of them indirectly kill people doesn’t make it moral to kill them. Maybe if it actually would make the world better, you could have a utilitarian argument for it, but as long as you just kill individual billionaires and not creating a new socialist system they’ll just be replaced by new billionaires. As I said, regardless of whether it’s moral to kill them, it won’t help.
All of them indirectly kill people. It’s impossible to be a billionaire and a moral person, as a moral person would spend that wealth to improve the lives of others. You can say that “oh but this billionaire runs a charity!”, but how much of their own wealth do they give to it? Would a moral billionaire rely on the money of others to make change in the world? Would they still be a billionaire if they truly wanted change?
Just to be clear, you don’t need to convince me there are no moral billionaires.
And billionaires are going to, what, just let us kill the system they run and are the primary beneficiaries of? Get your tongue out of the taint and look at the dying planet you’re on that they’re making.
The problem is that the billionaires perpetuate the system that supports them, and they effectively have all the power.
It will absolutely solve the problem,.
People dont want to die > People stop doing things that make others want to kill them > Success
It might have many unintended negative and positive consequences but you wont have any more billionaires very quickly if people literally killed anyone as soon as they amassed more than 1 billion dollars.
It would basically result in a voluntary 100% tax of anything over 1 billion because they dont want to die.
Sadly it will never happen because too many people would die in the process of getting there by the hands of people easily influenced by the billionaires money. (i.e. Police, Private Military, etc) But just a few martyrs would go a long way already and USAmericans have lots of guns.
All of this ofcourse only In Minecraft TM
Got it death penalty for all crimes
Well no, the answer should be prison, but the system is obviously corrupt because they are not in prison. If the system doesnt imprison criminals then sometimes the systems need to be circumvented.
It will absolutely solve the problem,.
People dont want to die > People stop doing things that make others want to kill them > Success
Edit if y’all don’t see how I’m being sarcastic, and this reply is about how the death penalty does not deter crime, I don’t know what to tell ya.
You can’t change the system while they own it and you can’t jail them when they own the prisons as well as the ones that should be putting them there.
What do you suggest?
Well, non violent seizing of the means via unionizing and community action via grassroots electorate driven by transparent mutual aid.
But once you sign on to get the executions starting, you better hope you’re in the “in group” all along. Else the violence will eventually come for you (not you you, hypothetical anyone)
And back to my point, the death penalty will just make them crafty, it won’t stop greed.
Okay so once you’ve non violently seized the means, and they come to violently take them back, then what?
Hey, it doesn’t all have to be work, work, work. Some fun is in order too.
Oh OK we’ll just do that then
Okay point to a success doing it your way.
Have you read the Jakarta Method?
No, but neither ways have succeeded, we still live in capitalist system. I’d prefer to try a method that doesn’t involve unnecessary killing and suffering.
i need you to answer the question I asked instead of spouting off about things you could easily know better about if you did some investigation into the topic.
but neither ways have succeeded
And you’re 100% wrong on this point. The other way has proven to work again and again. But only ever after your way fails and kills a shitload of innocent people. Just to say it explicitly: Every single violent revolution that has ever occurred on this earth began as a peaceful protest that was forced to become violent to protect themselves.
This whole “kill the rich” thing is counterproductive and needs to stop. Advocating for murder has never been cool.
I’ll take some of your money then, I’m sure you won’t mind considering how well-off you are (and how blind you are to those of us less fortunate). Oh, you don’t want me to do that? If only there was some system, some measure of equality, some safety from poverty, a safety net for those that got dealt a shit hand and are juuuuust treading water… while fuckwads buy their second Bugatti this month.
So for now, off with their heads. A few rolling away and they will come up with something real quick.
I respectfully disagree.
The ultra-rich aren’t shy about killing you or your loved ones if it makes them an extra million. There are exceptions, but they’re definitely not the rule.
Tit for tat. We’re absolutely in a class war and the owner class has been winning for three or four consecutive decades. The inequality in society was lower during the French revolution than it is now. Hell, the pay Scrooge gave out in the old tale was more than minimum wage is today adjusted for inflation.
I’m not saying we need violence, but I am saying we need the threat of violence for these kind of people to do their part. No one needs a billion dollars, let alone a trillion.
I also respectfully disagree. Tit for tat, taken to its logical conclusion, eradicates all life on the planet; if that’s your goal, fine, you can make that argument, but that’s ultimately a separate discussion. There were literal slaves and serfs around the time of the French Revolution—now you could make an argument that “wage slaves” or whatever exist in the first world, but that is pure abstraction when compared to the absolute widespread human suffering in France during the late 1700s. You would have to be entirely disconnected from reality to think that people, en masse, have it worse in first world countries than they did in France during the 1700s; that’s a “log off” moment, for sure. If you want to expand the scope to the world at large, then, yeah, there is some fucked up stuff going on, and people (millionaires, billionaires, &c. &c.) do hoard wealth, but murdering them is not the solution; that won’t even do anything to their accumulated wealth, as most of it is tied up in corporate assets; instead, harsh regulation needs to be enacted on the system that allows these people to accumulate obscene amounts of wealth. But instead, we have these very surface level takes that are just like “kill the billionaires”, which solves nothing and actually makes our side look insane, which hurts our cause—frankly, its stupid. Now, if you want to alter the claim to “the threat of violence is needed,” then I would be more inclined to agree; however, individually murdering certain billionaires is not productive; I don’t know about you, but I don’t want to match whatever vitriolic bullshit eye for an eye sentiment that these billionaires might have, and maybe that’s an idealistic take and naive, but it feels right.
have it worse in first world countries than they did in France during the 1700s
In absolute terms? Definitely not. The lowliest “unskilled” worker today has vastly more amenities than even a 17th century nobleman could even dream of.
In relative terms, however? The ultra-rich robbed you, me and every single other person on this planet. And to this you may retort that you do not care about wealth and are content with what you have. I would applaud such an answer, but it would be besides the point. What we’ve been systematically robbed of, is our time. Years, decades that could be spent enjoying your lives with our loved ones, instead spent slaving away at a desk or in a factory only to make the few who have everything even more. That, to me, is absolutely unforgivable, especially since I’ve long since past my physical prime and am still being robbed of this time against my will.
Now, if you want to alter the claim to “the threat of violence is needed,” then I would be more inclined to agree; however, individually murdering certain billionaires is not productive;
Again, I disagree. There are about ~2700 billionaires on earth out of ~8 billion people. Killing half of them and having that wealth redistributed would solve more problems than it would create. But if I do that, I’m thinking like said billionaires.
Which is the only way to fight them. If you try the moral and legal route, you won’t stand a chance because you’ll be fighting within systems and rulesets they have created to give themselves every (unfair) benefit.
Sometimes the disgruntled worker who shanks the boss is the hero we need.
“killing half the billionaires and redistributing their wealth”
Are we on the same planet right now? How are you going to do that? And if you kill them, how are you to ensure their wealth is redistributed properly, not just funneled back into their corporate shell company or their equally immoral families? The measure you’re proposing here requires a total overhaul of the system that is more unrealistic than a measured overhaul into more overall socialist systems of general wealth redistribution. I get that billionaires do harm to the planet and I get that that makes you, me, angry. but what you’re proposing here is just straight up murder and it’s unrealistic; It’s even more unrealistic than, say, everybody voting for a socialist and the systems entirely overhauled except you are adding extra steps of just killing all the billionaires on top of it. What I’m ultimately concerned about is the left going online and just saying kill billionaires while sitting in front of their computers doing literally nothing, making all of us look like psychopaths thus hurting our cause due to clear and obvious LARPing.
but it’s obvious to me that I’m not going to change your mind. you can sit around and LARP on Lemmy all day, if you want, that’s fine. Ultimately, in an hour, I won’t care that we even had his conversation. I’m not going to change your mind, so this is going to be my last post regarding this subject, because I’m not going to change anybody’s mind on a far left leaning Lemmy community. I’m sorry I even posted my opinion.
I just wanted to say thank you for voicing a clear, coherent rebuttal of the knee-jerk, emotional “kill 'em” reactions we see so much. You’re right that most who post that sort of thing are LARPing, and I really hope it’s just a way to let off steam, but I worry that someone might try to carry out the threat, and do incalculable harm to the left in the process.
Despite the downvotes, you are correct.
It’s asinine to even consider that a billionaire doesn’t have a will, let alone how awful it is to threaten a life.
They’d just be dealing with a younger, more entitled billionaire, who now wants to get revenge on the people that murdered their parent or benefactor. See Lachlan Murdoch, Charles Koch, any of the Waltons, etc. for example.
You’re being empathic towards people who have no empathy for you.
How is recognizing the financial failsafes of billionaires empathetic? I’m employing logic.
Did you miss the entire point of my comment because I also condemned taking a life?
People are killed daily not so indirectly by billionaires. Overpriced medicine, Military industry, Unhealthy products, Monopolization of water and other resources and land, poisoning ground water with industrial waste, unsafe work conditions, the list is endless.
There is almost no billionaire that isnt responsible for someones death and in a moral world they would be in prison. So morals are already completely out of the window.
If you were a slave and I was your master, would killing me be murder?
…yes? But, as all people and legal systems agree, there are times when murder is legal and endorsed.
Such as in wartime. And this is war, but most people are far too blind to see this.
Are you a literal slave? If you play with meaning, you can turn everyone into a slave and kill everyone. Is that what you want?
Are you a vegetarian? Just curious.
vegan, actually.
There ya go. Carry on then.
I respect life? sorry?
They intended to “gotcha” but you dodged.
I prefer “eat the rich” as a metaphor for seizing their assets, not a literal endorsement of cannibalism. I’m actually surprised how many people literally mean “kill the rich”. Are you guys actual sociopaths?
I’m actually surprised (not really) how many people can come this close to getting it, but still be so desperate to follow the rules they’ve set (E: where they can directly and indirectly kill millions a year for profit with impunity, but we’re not allowed to even say nasty things about them, never mind plan to fight back against them, without being considered dangerous terrorists), that you manage to convince yourself billionaires will just freely and willingly give over those assets and all of the power that comes with them one day once we’ve asked nicely enough… 🙄
I don’t think asset seizure going to be easy, but it’s going to be significantly more effective and safer for everyone than staging a new French Revolution.
If you’re truly advocating for murder on the internet (are you?), I don’t think there’s any point in trying to change your mind. I’m not “this close” to getting it — I already got it and rejected it.
OK why don’t you go kill some billionaires then, instead of just fantasizing about it on the internet? Good luck and godspeed.
I suspect this happens far more than you think. They just have amazing security details.
Nah, some of us just see that they buy the elections so that we can’t vote for change. And they buy the judges so we can’t sue for change. And they buy the media so we can’t speak for change. So now we’re exploring the extremely distasteful option because all other avenues for change have been blocked
Lots of folks here are 100% for violence against anyone they disagree with.
Lots of folks here are 100% for violence against anyone they disagree with.
This has absolutely nothing to do with not being able to agree or disagree with others. The rich are actively killing people with their greed - they always have been. Your comment shows you have not been paying attention
Hinkley groundwater contamination:
From 1952 to 1966, Pacific Gas and Electric Company (PG&E) dumped about 370 million gallons (1,400 million litres) of chromium-tainted wastewater into unlined wastewater spreading ponds around the town of Hinkley, California, located in the Mojave Desert about 120 miles north-northeast of Los Angeles.
The Lawyer Who Became DuPont’s Worst Nightmare By 1990, DuPont had dumped 7,100 tons of PFOA sludge into Dry Run Landfill.
The Sackler family is an American family who owned the pharmaceutical company Purdue Pharma. They have been described as the “most evil family in America”, and “the worst drug dealers in history”
One could spend years looking up examples and providing links. Go read about Rockefeller (the world’s first billionaire) and read about the work conditions of his oil field employees.
You have not been paying attention!
Site wide the general tone is “if they don’t pass the test, kill em”
No contest on the examples you provided. They are horrible.
God damn Lemmy
Edit literally just now a thread about Tesla’s being hard for emergency services to get into, people are replying that the occupants should be left to die.
Yeah, I’ve been finding myself arguing with zealots more and more on Lemmy. This is really not a healthy community. I hope it’s some form of keyboard warrior syndrome and not the way these people behave in the real world.
