Two of my coworkers frequently mention shows like “Encounters” or “Ancient apocalypse” or whatever. I’m not the best at debating or forming arguments against these though I do feel strongly that bold claims require better evidence than a blurry photo and an eyewitness account. How do you all go about this?
Today I clumsily stumbled through conversation and said “I’ll need some evidence” and was hit with “there’s plenty of evidence in the episode ‘Lights over Fukushima’”. I didn’t have an answer because I haven’t watched it. I’m 99% sure that if I watch it it’s gonna be dramatized, designed to scare/freak you out a little and consist of eyewitness accounts and blurry photos set to eerie music. But I’m afraid I just sound like a haughty know-it-all if I do assert this before watching.
These are good people and I want to remain on good terms and not come across as a cynical asshole.
(Sorry if language is too formal or stilted. Not my native tongue)
If they take a netflicks show as evidence, I seriously doubt you will be able to convince them otherwise.
Yeah. Also it’s not my place to raise adults. But a part of me wishes to plant a seed of skepticism. I have a hard time nodding and going along with it. I feel compelled to question it rather than going along with this kind of small talk.
Your answer is right there. Plant seeds of doubt. Ask questions about it. Wow! Did they get footage?! Really? There must be two sources for such a wild thing to have happened! What does Snopes say? Lmfao
You don’t have to convince them but you also don’t have to listen either.
You just have to decide that any issues with cutting them off when they start talking about it is worth the effort or if it may cause problems at work.
I’ll think on this. Thank you :)
I’ve watched some of the shows because they do actually lead to some interesting archeological digs I hadn’t heard of before… However there’s one thing that always nags me when watching this stuff – why do they always think ancient humans were so stupid? It is believed that the human brain has not changed for around 100,000 years, which means that no matter how far back you go in our observable history, those people had the same capacity for rational thought as we do. Sure, we have a huge advantage through the knowledge of written history, but even a cave man had the same ability as we do to accomplish a task with the materials at hand.
You’ll also note they always ask a modern engineer how they would accomplish tasks such as moving large stones, and the answer is always something like “I would use modern machinery” because of course we’ve come to rely on them and nobody today ever tries to think of any other way to perform the same task. How were the great pyramids built? They always claim it can’t be done today, while conveniently ignoring all of the theories of how they did probably move those blocks.
So I guess my skepticism on those types of shows is that they intentionally leave out significant details to make everything sound more woo-woo (every big claim they make probably already has a wikipedia page providing legitimate answers or at least giving factual details). Sure there are some things that still aren’t understood but just because you see some glowing lights doesn’t immediately mean aliens are involved. Even though I do believe there is other life out there, I haven’t seen any evidence yet on these shows that I would consider “proof” of visitations, but rather just a whole lot of “this is how we interpret the data to fit our conspiracy theory.”
why do they always think ancient humans were so stupid?
Because they (and by extension their audience) are not that bright.
If they cannot think of how it was done and they must be smart because they live with all this modern technology (which they didn’t create and don’t really understand) then there is no way for people in the past to have done it.
Therefore…aliens. Well, that is the modern thought. In the past it you just replace aliens with God or Gods or Demons etc.
Yeah replacing “god” with “aliens” pretty much sums up the mentality here.
One that really gets me (and I can’t think offhand of where exactly it is at), is an artificial cave network that appears to date back to the last big ice age, around 10,000 years ago. “But they didn’t have anything other than stone tools, so it couldn’t have been created by humans!” You’re telling me that if the only thing you know about is stone, that you wouldn’t have some understanding that some types of stone are harder than others? We’re talking about people living in one place for millennia with nothing to do except go out hunting for food and sitting in the cave, and in all that time they couldn’t have slowly cut out more caves to make their homes larger? Seems like such a simple idea to me, and yet it seems to go right over the heads of all these people discussing those caves. “Mommy I’m bored!” “Grab a rock and start grinding, dear.”
Are you sure they are taking it seriously? I’ve watched a bunch of Ancient Aliens and it was fun entertainment so long as it is recognized as just entertainment. The main voice in the show makes me fall asleep so I’ve technically had most episodes play across my screen. Me and coworkers make comments regularly that “it’s aliens man” as the reason for things. None of us see it as more than humor and maybe that’s the case with your people.
I’m not sure but they do talk about it a lot and I have been cornered with things like “did you know that all fighter pilots since the 1960s have had to take an oath of silence because they keep seeing aliens up there, anyway this whistleblower…”.
I’m having a hard time navigating these but letting them have their fun while just asking what they believe and why is probably not a bad approach.
Someone mentioned that going through with debunking them is a spoilsport move that’s a lot of work to do right and would probably just sour our relationship at work.
I genuinely love Ancient Aliens but it’s definitely a comedy for me. I really don’t understand how anyone can take it seriously. My husband had someone in one of his college classes who believed an Animal Planet mockumentary about mermaids was real, though, so I guess people have fallen for dumber things.
You replied to the wrong comment @SpaceAce is the one with the alien believing workmates.
Yarrr….im going to blame this on Memmy as I really believe I hit the correct button and Memmy moved my comment. It’s easier to blame the app than move the comment.
All good. I linked spaceace so you wouldn’t have to move the comment and they would still be notified.
Highly recommend the podcast ‘It’s probably not aliens’ if you want to find out more about the real history of the claims made in these kind of shows, and how the claims of aliens are often rooted in racism and colonialism
Thanks. I’ve been needing more podcasts anyway :)
That being the case, the excellent podcast Our Fake History talks about aliens in Who Built The Pyramids part III (obviously you should listen to part 1 and 2 first). This episode builds on some other episodes (Sebastian debunks all kinds of other garbage historical myths) and some familiar names tend to come up over and over. Who Are The Magicians Of The God and Was There A Real Atlantis are other episodes that might have some relevance to the KIND of arguments your coworkers are likely making.
(not OC +__+)
Ignore it or mock it. I start preaching about Great Cthulhu at people who have loonie beliefs, and let them try to debunk me.
I’ve got good at reciting “Ph’nglui mglw’nafh Cthulhu R’lyeh wgah’nagl fhtagn!” in a high-pitched preacher voice.
Patiently explain that “alien encounters” are just the playful trickery of the Fae, who have been pulling this sort of thing for much longer than anyone was imagining spaceships.
If you want to win a fist fight, bring a rocket launcher.
Just remember that shit has a blast radius, your reputation may get hit.
I love you lmfao
Cass, you idjit! You have been on earth from how long and still don’t know how humans work! They are just going to think the OP is delusional!
You’re approaching it wrong. Don’t fight them. Fake interest and talk with them to investigate their stupid believes. Try to understand why they believe it, how did they get brainwashed, what defence mechanism they have in place to discredit real science. It can be fascinating experience for you and you will learn a lot about people in general.
Or just stonewall them if you don’t want to deal with that nonsense.
Yes, you can also do it but I really think it’s good to investigate people like this a bit. Couple years ago I spend some times watching the craziest videos about alternative science from my country and I think I actually learned a lot. My take now is that a lot of people pushing those things are actually smart and have a lot of charisma but without proper education. They don’t understand science because they never learned about so society tells them they are stupid. This creates growing frustration in them and when they stumble on alternative science they suddenly have an explanation: it’s not that I’m stupid, the science is wrong. Alternative science is a lot simpler, more intuitive and they can shine there and become some sort of leader. I notices they all tell the same (obviously made up) story: some guy said my invention is stupid but then I showed him how it works and it blew his mind and he was amazed at how great it is. Showing society they are actually the smart ones and everyone else is wrong is one of their main fantasies.
They talk about this in the documentary Behind the Curve. Pretty much exactly what you said here
Actually for me Behind the Curve was more about community and fame. For most people it’s about belonging to some group. There’s a documentary about Star Trek that shows the same thing. For the ‘leaders’ it’s definitely about fame and other benefits and Behind the Curve was spot on here.
One of my coworkers was big into conspiracy and I had one conversation with him trying to understand where he’s coming from with all of this. I quickly realized that changing his mind was impossible because he wasn’t even talking with me, he was talking at me. After that I just smiled and nodded at everything he said. He’s yet to realize this
Exactly. It’s reality TV you get paid to consume. Win win win. They think they are smart. You get to giggle internally. And your boss thinks you are a great leader.
Let people be wrong.
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Yeah even showing incredulity will keep the other person engaged, just be as boring a conversation partner as possible during the subject, try at every opportunity to change the subject, and eventually they’ll either get the hint, or just start bugging someone whose more fun to talk about it with
“How to deal with Ancient aliens in the workplace?”
Man, for a second I thought you are talking about older, immigrant co-workers.
Woah woah woah. Hold on a second. There are actually people who take Ancient Aliens seriously?! I thought we all watched it because it was hilariously stupid.
You already made up your mind that you won’t believe alien stuff, and you don’t want to offend your coworkers. Then just treat those alien stuff as their hobby. When your coworkers talk about their hobby, what would you usually do? Certainly not trying to shit on their hobby, unless you don’t like those coworkers.
Fair point, thanks.
This is not worth challenging, especially if you are outnumbered. You are not likely to change their beliefs with evidence. The beliefs are flexible and can be endlessly swapped out with new beliefs that demand new evidence. I don’t know what you should do but you definitely shouldn’t attempt to change their minds like that.
This isn’t the hill you want to die on. If they ask for your input, just say that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and shrug. Most people follow these things because they’re exciting in an otherwise unexciting life, not because they’re dedicating their lives to discovering alien life or invading area 51.
If they try to debate you, just say ok and smile. You’re not going to logic someone out of a position they didn’t logic themselves into.
If you’re feeling up to it, you could just tell them about the invisible dragon in your garage, or the teapot that’s currently orbiting the sun.
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You should pick your battles. Think pretty carefully about what you actually want to debate/pushback on because it’s exhaustive and requires you to research the topic. It’s probably a waste of your time doing the research to debunk these alien sightings since a new one pops up every few months.
Yeah. Maybe I should ask general questions but not push back on anything. Like “What about this episode convinced you?”. “Do you think that’s enough evidence or would you like to see something more?”. “Wow, so why isn’t this all over the news, do you think?”
Or is this line of questioning too obvious?
Those questions are just going to open a can of crazy. Some battles aren’t worth fighting and in the workplace you’re going to see a lot of them.
To me those shows are fantasy and i let the person enjoy telling me about the episode. I’d ask questions like wow what do you reckon the aliens are doing here or have you had any extra terrestrial experiences. Generic smalltalk stuff that let’s the person feel like they are telling you something cool and interesting because to them it is.
“Stilted”?
You sir, are one of those fucking amazing people who profusely apologize for not being a native English speaker and then blurt out 37 paragraphs of perfect English.
You have nothing to be ashamed of - your English is better than a lot of them native speakers ! And always remember this :
“You are speaking English because that is the only language you know; I am speaking English because that is the only language you know. We are not the same.”
And as to your original question - if I ever ask them “what evidence did you see which proves X happens?”, I have almost always been hit with the reply, “Oh yeah? What proof do you have that says X does not happen???”. And then I tell them the anecdote of the Invisible Dragon by Carl Sagan. Look it up if this is new to you, and for a more formal treatment, check out Karl Popper’s theory of Falsifiability.
I have personally converted at least one conspiracy theorist to being an Agnostic. So I know it works. Try them out, it’s fun.
And I also am not a native English speaker to be honest :-)
Haha thanks. I know I’m being silly, on a certain level, apologizing for my English but as an anxious person I’m being defensive up front. I still feel like I don’t sound like a native, an outsider, and I want people to know I’m not native if they pick up on my English being off.
Thanks for the advice. Though reading all them comments I’m starting to lean towards letting them have their fun. I am not great at debating anyway and maybe questioning without confronting is best.
Yeah I agree. Let them die alone, thinking about Alien abduction and crop circles.
I mean, if you are so disinterested in the conversation that you would ask the internet how to have your side of it rather than check out the show, maybe you just shouldn’t have that conversation. Change the subject or tell them you’re not into it. Who cares if they believe there are aliens?
Personally, I find it impossible to believe there isn’t other intelligent life out there. It’s not because of blurry photos or spooky stories. It’s that the universe is just so vast and there’s so much we will never understand about this place we are in. How can it not be out there? Frankly, it takes more faith to believe there isn’t something.
With that perspective, I do occasionally find those shows interesting. Not because it’s proof of anything but because it’s fun to watch and wonder what it is. It doesn’t have to make you a believer or a non-believer. There’s obviously something in the videos. What it is and where it comes from is entirely different. It’s just entertainment for people who like to indulge in a little speculation.
Personally, I find it impossible to believe there isn’t other intelligent life out there.
If the universe is infinite, and there’s no reason not to believe that this very well may be the case, then it’s almost certain that there is other intelligent life out there. However, just as the vastness of an infinite universe guarantees other intelligent life, it also guarantees that we’ll never meet. We may find evidence of them, or they may find evidence of us, but the odds of intelligent life concurrently existing in near enough proximity for our independent geneses, evolution, and advancement to interstellar travel before either people managed to die out is effectively zero. And mere radio communication between interstellar civilizations would literally take generations for a basic conversation at best. Humans may not even last another thousand or even hundred years. Can you imagine history textbooks in 3000 talking about current times the way that we talk about the Norman conquest of England or the first crusade? It’s weird to imagine where they’ll be to look down upon our ways of life now.
That’s fair, thanks. Reading this and other comments I think I’m taking this too seriously and furthernore, they’re having fun. It feels silly now to have asked but still, bouncing this off of strangers helped. I can only echo chamber in my own head.
I tried to engage them with exoplanetary research. I am also in the camp that surely we are not alone in the universe. Why assume we’re special in a seemingly homogenous universe? I am looking forward to humanity finding their first reliable biomarker in space.
I guess we’re just excited about the same thing, really.
Cool! The exo-planetary stuff and astronomy is interesting to me. I’m loving the data we are getting from JWST. There was recently an article about possible biological chemical processes on a faraway planet. The asteroid sample NASA collected also contained the building blocks for life. Not too long ago, we got to see the first picture of a black hole. There’s just so much out there to explore.
I wonder if we would even recognize other intelligent life if we found it. Could we figure out how to communicate? We can barely recognize intelligent life on Earth. Humans eat octopus and it’s one of the most intelligent creatures we are aware of. We still look right past them.
@Joker I believe in alien life forms too, but Ancient Aliens is hot garbage about earth that requires you to pretend you don’t know a lot of facts about engineering, the laws of physics, and history in order to swallow their nonsense.
