• BigMacHole@sopuli.xyz
    2537·
    4 天前

    This is HORRIBLE! WHY can’t Iran just let Israel Bomb Them in PEACE? IRAN IS ANTI SEMETIC!

  • iAvicenna@lemmy.world
    622·
    4 天前

    fucking trigger happy Netanyahu should be publicly dragged behind a chariot until he dies for his genocidal crimes and bringing the world to the brink of third world war.

    • SupaTuba@lemm.ee
      588·
      4 天前

      I feel terrible for every citizen killed or made homeless/jobless because of this.

      • IttihadChe@lemmy.mlEnglish
        271·
        4 天前

        Hopefully they take the opportunity for a fresh start and move out of the settler occupation of Palestine.

      • AntiOutsideAktion@lemmy.mlEnglish
        218·
        4 天前

        Fun fact: every citizen of the entity is considered a reservist so there ARE no civilians! If you’re a settler you’re a valid target no matter what!

        • lenz@lemmy.ml
          101·
          4 天前

          Idk man. If you’re a child, a unhoused, or a otherwise a person without the economic means to leave because your ancestors were settlers and you just so happened to be born in the colonized land, I’d consider you a civilian. I think your view is too black and white.

          Screw you if you’re a deliberate Zionist benefiting from genocide though.

          • IttihadChe@lemmy.mlEnglish
            51·
            4 天前

            Israelis aren’t walled in and prevented from leaving like Palestinians are in Gaza.

            Israelis have no practical excuse to continue their occupation, especially when everyone is forced to serve in the IDF to actively aid the occupation rather than just passively.

        • Allero@lemmy.today
          92·
          4 天前

          As long as they are not on active duty, they shouldn’t be targets. And if they are forced to serve, they should still only be killed if they are an active threat. Normally, they should first be offered to surrender.

          Hope you’re acting ironic and do not actually call to genocide all Jews in Israel.

          • Tiger666@lemmy.ca
            42·
            4 天前

            No, but all Israelis that are zionists maybe.

            Zionists are not Jewish people, they are actually against Judaism.

            I believe it’s the Talmud that says Israel cannot exist until the messiah returns. This is why you have many religious Jews in the US against the state of Israel.

            Zionists are the one and only antisemites.

            • Allero@lemmy.today
              13·
              4 天前

              Zionists are mostly Jews, but Jews are mostly not Zionists.

              But yes, according to Talmud, Israel shouldn’t exist.

              • IttihadChe@lemmy.mlEnglish
                3·
                4 天前

                There are more Christian Zionists than there are Jews in total.

                “Zionists are mostly Jews” is an objectively false statement.

                Maybe specifically in Israel the statement could be seen as true, but that’s only because Israel is a jewish settler ethnostate, so most of almost any grouping would be a majority Jews.

              • Tiger666@lemmy.ca
                22·
                4 天前

                Zionist are not jews. They might say they are but the are against Judaism just like southern Christians are not Christians.

        • Eatspancakes84@lemmy.world
          3·
          4 天前

          I don’t want to talk ethics, but as a rule of thumb, winning a war is easier if you take out strategic targets than if you target civilians. Targeting civilians is what you do if your weapons aren’t precise enough to target tanks/planes etc.

        • Bloomcole@lemmy.world
          53·
          4 天前

          The rest would do the same.
          As they always have proven their entire miserable history.
          Singling out Netanyahoo is Bernie the sheepdog’s tactics of dammage control

          • arrow74@lemm.eeEnglish
            1·
            4 天前

            Blaming the government in power and those who put them in power for the actions taken by the government is totally reasonable.

            You’re suggesting well “what about a hypothetical government that doesn’t exist huh?”. That doesn’t matter. They don’t exist. Blame the government

            • Bloomcole@lemmy.world
              3·
              4 天前

              Every government before him was the same, they’re not ‘hypothetical’. Ridiculous argument.
              What doesn’t exist is a reality where the next government isn’t brutally mistreating Palestine.
              Your hasbara is weak

            • IttihadChe@lemmy.mlEnglish
              1·
              4 天前

              Israel didn’t become an apartheid genocidal occupation of Palestinian land under Netanyahu. It’s has been since its founding.

              You’re suggesting we close our eyes and pretend their entire history doesn’t matter, that we just blame the current figurehead and his (variable but typically increasingly few) direct supporters.

        • SupaTuba@lemm.ee
          611·
          4 天前

          Well I’m glad all of your elected officials represent your views and morals.

          • Lileath@lemmy.blahaj.zone
            101·
            4 天前

            The majority of Israelis supports the genocide of the Palestinians according to surveys and more than half of jewish Israelis support attacking Iran even without US support.

              • It'sbetterwithbutter@lemmus.orgEnglish
                31·
                4 天前

                The majority of the world is critical of ALL Americans now for Trump, he was elected twice, thant’s on them all. Israelis have expressed majority support for this ongoing genocide and attacks on Iran, this is on them all. Bomb a soverign nation “pre emptively” get bombed back.

                Fuck the entire Israeli government and anyone who supports it.

          • Bloomcole@lemmy.world
            41·
            4 天前

            Don’t think they care much. Or about anything except themselves for that matter.
            The most navel staring country on the planet

            • queermunist she/her@lemmy.ml
              5·
              4 天前

              The reason the US supports Israel is exactly because Israel is a settler-colony. They’re part of the same genocidal settler project, Zionism is Manifest Destiny.

              If landback wins in Israel the ones paying attention know that it’s coming for them too.

                • queermunist she/her@lemmy.ml
                  2·
                  4 天前

                  But they didn’t have to make a colony of European settlers to do that, did they? Egypt is a loyal collaborator with the US and it fulfills the same geostrategic goals, but the amount of support Egypt gets pales in comparison to Israel. Why is that?

                  We can’t dismiss the ideological importance of Israel. The unlimited support of the 51st state is exactly because it is a settler-colony.

                • kreskin@lemmy.world
                  11·
                  3 天前

                  This belief that Israel is a US controlled proxy has always vexed me.
                  So-- honest question here-- From inside the US it appears that our entire political apparatus is controlled by a relatively small sprinkling of zionists doing whatever is good for Israel and is inevitably bad for the US-- going all the way back to the Nakba. But theres always people (like yourself) on Lemmy and Reddit claiming Israel is a US creature under US control for US gain.

                  As an American my free speech ends and I get prosecuted if I say anything anti semitic. I CAN say racist things about anyone else, all I want as long as I dont start a riot.

                  Can you tell me why you are so certain zionism is controlled by the US (your understanding), not the US by rich zionists (my understanding)?

                  edit: Did you just …downvote and run away from the question? It was an honest question.

          • kreskin@lemmy.world
            1·
            3 天前

            Manifest destiny said the US land is all ours. Also Hawaii. Divine right mandated by God, so…

            /s

        • Bravo@eviltoast.org
          37·
          4 天前

          Every land is stolen. The problem is that they’re in the middle of committing genocide.

          • Bloomcole@lemmy.world
            51·
            4 天前

            Not ‘every’ land but I get the point.
            Still it doesn’t compare and there’s no excuse.
            In this case the colonising is still going on, hence the genocide.
            They are not ‘citizens’ but colonisers.
            They deserve all they get, what they don’t deserve is sympathy.

            • Cethin@lemmy.zipEnglish
              12·
              3 天前

              I would disagree. If you go back far enough, every land has been stolen. There is probably no piece of land that hasn’t been held by multiple different groups over time.

              I’d also argue a government existing at all is stolen land. What gives them the right to the land, instead of the people using it as they want? At some point someone decided the land was theirs, and not someone else’s, and decided they could sell, lend, or use the land as they want, even if someone else also wanted to use it.

              • queermunist she/her@lemmy.ml
                3·
                3 天前

                Before colonialism, empires would conquer lands and then just make the people who already live there into their subjects.

                And before empires and agriculture and such, people weren’t really organized enough to steal land (and weren’t embedded deeply enough in the land for it to be stolen). They’d just move to the new land and become part of the people already there.

                • Cethin@lemmy.zipEnglish
                  12·
                  3 天前

                  And before empires and agriculture and such, people weren’t really organized enough to steal land (and weren’t embedded deeply enough in the land for it to be stolen). They’d just move to the new land and become part of the people already there.

                  Yeah, that’s my point. At one point in time land wasn’t something owned, just something utilized. The fact that governments exert control over them implies they were stolen, as it prevents some people from utilizing it. See: Proudhon - What is Property?

              • Bloomcole@lemmy.world
                1·
                3 天前

                Someone made the same point so answered this already to show it is an invalid argument in the case of Palestine.

      • Cethin@lemmy.zipEnglish
        2·
        3 天前

        I don’t. I only feel terrible for the ones who were opposed to these attacks on other countries. Most of them (if the statistics I’ve seen are to be believed) support the actions, so they deserve the consequences. Maybe these people dying horrifically will finally make others consider the value of lives.

  • zr0@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
    994·
    4 天前

    Oh poor Israel thought Iron Dome will protect them. Iran learned a lot from Ukraine. Drones in masses are enough to penetrate the shield. And don’t forget that the Iron Dome costs Israel 1 billion USD for each night in full defence mode. It only takes a couple of days, weeks until the Iron Dome is empty.

          • davel [he/him]@lemmy.mlEnglish
            191·
            4 天前

            While there’s infinite money, there’s very limited industrial capacity, because the US de-industrialized itself. The US and Europe combined already can’t keep Ukraine supplied.

          • IttihadChe@lemmy.mlEnglish
            5·
            4 天前

            I meant more politically and materially than just monetarily.

            If we cut social programs at home and continue to send/ ramp up even more billions to support Israel it will just create even more unrest, which is already at a low boil.

            We also don’t have unlimited manufacturing capabilities. How much material can we sacrifice without weakening our own access to these resources.

        • ZWQbpkzl [none/use name]@hexbear.netEnglish
          8·
          4 天前

          Given the political climate, money isn’t really the issue. The issue is how many THAAD missiles do we have stockpiled, how fast can we make them, and how fast can we ship them?

    • StupidBrotherInLaw@lemmy.world
      151·
      4 天前

      Where are you getting this $1B figure? It appears the main cost is rockets, which run about $50k per. $1B would account for launching 20,000 rockets. There are 10 batteries in Israel with at most 80 rockets each, so a maximum of 800 rockets. That means 25 reloads a day. Is it really burning through that many rockets daily or is there more to this?

        • zr0@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
          8·
          4 天前

          This. And all the repairs. Also we’re talking here about military stuff. You don’t use FedEx to ship that. Military personell + equipment is expensive as fuck. Efficiency is not of priority.

    • humanspiral@lemmy.ca
      9·
      4 天前

      Know that US gives fake loans (forgiven the same day) for all IDF expenses. This is somehow not part of US miitary budget even though they pay for everything.

    • ameancow@lemmy.worldEnglish
      41·
      3 天前

      I’ll deliver this reply in Choose Your Own Adventure Format:

      If you want to make a reference to Donald Trump being at his birthday parade and thus exposed, vulnerable and in the open and presently not looking up, turn to page 89.

      If you rather make a reference to how we should leave the Devil be because the Devil himself is more respectable and honorable than any of these monstrous despots who murder out of spite and wrap themselves in scripture, turn to page 322.

          • Crankenstein@lemmy.world
            141·
            4 天前

            Just look up the history of Israel before it was given statehood and of Zionism. Here is a good article by the Guardian. warning, it’s a very complicated situation, all in all, and this article really gets into the nitty gritty of history. Literally, deep into it. It’s some heavy reading.

            Boiled down though…

            After the defeat of the Ottomans and their empire partitioned off to various countries after the Sinai and Palestine campaigns of WW1, the British were given control via a mandate by the League of Nations over a territory that became known as the Mandate of Palestine, but it was still mostly Arab citizens, the British were just given authority to maintain order in the region.

            During the years of occupation, the British government encouraged European Jews to settle the region in an effort to fulfill political obligations to the Zionist movement made at what is known as the Balfour Declaration. This caused a civil war to break out over the whole colonization thing.

            With the end of the Mandate over the region drawing to an end, and the tensions of the area heightened after civil war, the U.N. voted to subdivide the Mandate of Palestine into two separate states: Palestine and Israel

          • Barbarian@sh.itjust.works
            92·
            4 天前

            Here’s the long version.

            Short version is that in WW1, the UK conquered Palestine from the Ottoman empire. 1922-1948, the British ran the territory, getting shot at regularly by both native Arabs, the tiny number of native Jews, and the comparatively much larger group of immigrant Jews. In the 1940s, the UK asked for and got US help with counterterrorist operations, especially against Jewish ones. Arabs and Jews pinky promised to play nice with each other if the UK left, so rather than continue getting shot by everyone in the region, they left. Arabs and Jews immediately started a war as soon as the UK army left. Then, every single neighbouring country attacked the newly formed Israel, which they somehow survived.

            (Missing HUGE amounts of context and nuance here, obviously)

              • Barbarian@sh.itjust.works
                31·
                4 天前

                Yup. Did specifically say that I was missing tons of stuff in that super short summary of the formation of Israel. Also left out the Balfour declaration, the White Paper of 1939, the Buraq uprising, the Black Hand, Lehi and their attempted alliance with Nazi Germany, and much much more.

        • ztwhixsemhwldvka@lemmy.world
          12·
          4 天前

          The British restricted Jewish, particularly Zionist, immigration to Palestine towards the end of the Mandate. And abstained from voting for the creation of the partition at the UN.

          • Crankenstein@lemmy.world
            2·
            3 天前

            Yea, they say they restricted the Jewish immigrants. Yet, if you read the article posted in my other comment, you’d see that their actions during the time period of their mandate speaks a different tale.

            Them abstaining from the vote is purely performative, and doesn’t negate the rest of what they did to facilitate the colonization of Palestine.

          • rumimevlevi@lemmings.world
            2·
            4 天前

            The british should have stopped the zionist army after the zionists terrorist act against their personels ftom creating the terrorist state

      • LSNLDN@slrpnk.net
        82·
        4 天前

        a "little loyal Jewish Ulster in a sea of potentially hostile Arabism

          • LSNLDN@slrpnk.net
            4·
            4 天前

            Yep as is the one above. Look into these quotes and you’ll see the history of why the west are supporting this genocide with their actions even if outwardly they’re doing their best to obfuscate

    • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
      206·
      4 天前

      Iran is not nearly as bad as Israel. A world where Iran loses and Israel loses would be a dramatic loss for the people of Iran, while if Israel loses and Iran maintains its sovereignty the people of Iran can chart their own destiny, rather than being dominated by the US and terrorized by Israel. All of this not even mentioning the cessation of the genocide of Palestine.

      • Tenderizer78@lemmy.ml
        5·
        4 天前

        Yeah, when I said that I didn’t really adequately consider what would actually come of Iran being crippled. Civilian rule is not the likely outcome of Iran being defeated.

        And Iran isn’t as bad as Israel, I agree, but that’s a pretty low bar.

        • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
          112·
          4 天前

          A low bar it may be, but as you said in the beginning, a toppled Iran would end up like a toppled Iraq - utterly devastated and all of the flaws that existed pre-Iraq War seem like beauty marks after the genocidal US invasion.

          People need to chart their own destiny, free from terrorization backed by the US Empire. Without that pressure, social movements in Iran have more room to breathe without fearing rocket-fire from Israel.

      • MrSpArkle@lemmy.ca
        111·
        4 天前

        The people of Iran would be wise to take this opportunity to actually plot their destiny.

        • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
          10·
          4 天前

          What would that look like? Trying to help Israel destroy Iran, allowing the US and Israel to sweep in and commit genocide against them like the US did with Iraq? The Iranian state is what currently stands between the people and utter devastation, even if that state is flawed, without it the people of Iran have no voice in their destiny.