Check the modlog for proof, a discussion post about moving this instance to an instance that shan’t be named now got removed for “linking to instance featuring pedo content”.

Ironically that exact possibility was reason for the discussion in the first place so seeing it happen this quickly is a bit funny.

Not sure how best to go about linking to said instance since it seems to get your content removed. DM’s would be the only solution I guess but not sure if those are checked as well.

    • NeshuraOPA
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      Yup, that was a bit of a shit show all around, made the rounds in the privacy communities as well and they were not pleased with the blatant censorship over there either. I guess stuff like this is why a lot of those people hang around dbzer0 now. To each interest an instance with fitting policies I guess.

      The really sad part though is how it locks in users on lemmy.ml, you can’t even really link to a safe haven because doing so is already grounds to get the post/comment removed

      • Appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        7 months ago

        Pretty happy with my instance. :)
        Tbf though I don’t check the mod log.
        Do you get a message if something happened with your post?

        • ram
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          6 months ago

          Nope, it just gets silently removed.

        • NeshuraOPA
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          7 months ago

          Not sure, never happened to me yet. I’d guess so. I noticed with the previous discussion post because I have instance admin superpowers (jokes aside as admin I still see deleted posts even on other instances)

  • Itte@sh.itjust.works
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    7 months ago

    I saw that post yesterday. It’s true but it says “mods” for me:

    Kinda crazy when its linked at the sidebar.

    • ram@lemmy.ca
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      7 months ago

      These actions are being taken by .ml site admin Arthur Besse / cypherpunks. There’s nothing I can do as a mere community mod ^^

      • Dessalines@lemmy.ml
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        I can see that you downvoted besse’s comment asking for volunteers with three different accounts of yours. This downvote manipulation viewer is already proving useful.

        • ram@lemmy.ml
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          It was incidental tbh. I keep seeing it on different accounts and just click the appropriate button. If I’d actually wanted to manipulate it, I wouldn’t have used 3 accounts named “ram” given kbin can see it, right? lmao

      • Arthur Besse@lemmy.ml
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        this comment was deleted by someone else for disclosing the identity behind a mod action, but since it was my identity being revealed i am choosing to reply to it.

        These actions are being taken by .ml site admin Arthur Besse / cypherpunks. There’s nothing I can do as a mere community mod ^^

        As a moderator, you could and imo definitely should remove the links to that instance from the sidebar, and in their place put a note mentioning that sexualized drawings of children are not allowed here. I’m not really into anime but I have enjoyed some and I would rather that we could have a community for it here than not. But, that requires moderators who are willing to delete things like that (not to mention not link to it themselves).

        Any volunteers?

    • Lvxferre@lemmy.ml
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      7 months ago

      For me it says “admins”. I don’t know if it’s because I’m a mod of a few other lemmy.ml comms, or if it’s because of the different backend versions (SJW uses 0.18.5, lemmy.ml uses 0.19.1).

    • NeshuraOPA
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      7 months ago

      I mean yeah, that’s why the talk about moving the stragglers was even brought up. Keeping this anime community is neither in the best interest of the .ml admins nor in the best interest of the community.

      • RightHandOfIkaros@lemmy.world
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        7 months ago

        Its really unfortunate that the ml admins are the way they are. Too bad there cant be a mass mod message sent as a DM to subscribers telling them where to move to. That make sit tedious and can make those left behind feel lost. But I guess if enough move over and the anime community that is more social than this one gets bigger maybe itll be easier to find? Who knows.

        I was only here because it was the first search result a while back.

        • Appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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          7 months ago

          Can’t you pin a message in a board so if members would be informed if they choose to investigate why theres no content?

          • nyan@lemmy.cafe
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            7 months ago

            The problem is that one of the lemmy.ml admins has misconceptions about the instance that the admins of this community want to redirect traffic to, and said lemmy.ml admin has been deleting posts that so much as mention that server. That increases the difficulty of leaving a pinned pointer message.

  • NeshuraOPA
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    7 months ago

    To add a bit more opinion: If you have an account on lemmy.ml itself and read/comment in either the Anime or Manga community I urgently recommend you migrate to a different instance. As far as I can tell the instance we shan’t name here anymore for fear of admin abuse is still visible on join-lemmy.org after widespread complaints that removing an instance from there based on admin opinion alone is not exactly nice.

    Best way to tell you how to find it is go to join-lemmy.org and look for an obviously anime themed instance in the “Art” category. Not sure if just saying that is grounds for removal though, depends on how trigger happy the admins here are.

  • rickyrigatoni@lemm.ee
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    7 months ago

    I just moved to lemm.ee from lemmy.ml because I was tired of the .ml admins constantly removing any minor criticism of BRICS-allied countries for “xenophobia”. I think it would be a good idea to abandon the instance altogether, especially for topics such as world news.

    Pretty weird move to develop a social media platform with a transparent modlog and still partake in censorship on your own instance.

    • harry_balzac@lemmy.world
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      I’ve not heard many positive things about the ml instance. I ended up on the dot world because I didn’t know that much about the fediverse. Hell, I still don’t know that much.

  • nyan@lemmy.cafe
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    7 months ago

    Maybe link to a community which can then link to the actual target? Both beehaw and lemmy.world have general anime communities. Not a perfect solution, granted, but it might be a usable workaround.

  • Lvxferre@lemmy.ml
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    Sorry for the double reply. Here’s a practical idea: what if the mods of this comm contacted lemmy.ml’s admins? Ideally doing two things:

    1. Clarifying that the instance in question does not have child sexual abuse material, and requesting users to be allowed to link it.
    2. Expressing desire to migrate !anime@lemmy.ml to the instance in question, and highlighting that this is convenient for both sides of the matter.

    Among the admins I think that Nutomic would be the best to contact, given the github thread.

    • NeshuraOPA
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      I highly doubt 1 will work given the reaction they had initially to claims it contains csam. 2 could potentially work though, maybe they’d have to write in a disclaimer of sorts to get the admins on board. If the link is the problem and not the wording just writing the instance name without a link would also work I guess.

      @N3DSdude, @Nami, @ram, @rammy What are the mods’ thoughts on this idea?

    • NeshuraOPA
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      I see two options as to why you made that comment:

      1: you just blindly believe what that admin said and have no opinion of your own, if that is the case I highly doubt a discussion is possible

      2: you actually believe anime is csam in which case a discussion won’t be possible either because we don’t share the same definition of what csam is

      As a closing note I find it hilarious that someone from hexbear of all places tries to ridicule people for trying to move to a safe space for their community

      Edit: case in point against the csam claim is the fact that the instance in question got re-added to join-lemmy.org because the material that got it removed was not remotely seen as csam by the other maintaners

      • CrushKillDestroySwag [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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        Well at first I assumed there was probably validity to what Dessalines said, because I consider them credible and I know enough about anime to know that there is a lot of csam that hides behind bullshit justifications. Even in this thread there’s discussion of a show that blatantly tittilates the audience with underage characters that would absolutely qualify as csam in any other community except in the anime community, for some reason.

        And then I went onto the anime lemmy everyone is surreptitiously talking about, and the literal first post I saw was a body pillow design featuring an underage character that is right on the line of being csam. It was the only example I saw in my brief look, and it didn’t quite qualify, which is why I came back and deleted my comment.

        I don’t care about what the maintainers’ view of the matter is, I make (and sometimes delete) my comments based on my own view of it.

        • NeshuraOPA
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          I may have an extremely warped opinion on this due to several reasons (imo mostly due to irl encounters with adult people that would put you on a watch list due to how young they look) but I think in the end it usually boils down to anime/manga just being terrible media for portraying how old a character actually is. The oldest anime character you can draw will still look significantly younger than a person you meet irl simply because the art style hides a lot of the age marks.

          Edit: which is not to say that there isn’t a lot of CSAM hiding, it’s just imo the stuff that gets popular on SFW platforms is rarely that stuff

        • Lvxferre@lemmy.ml
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          Even in this thread there’s discussion of a show that blatantly tittilates the audience with underage characters that would absolutely qualify as csam in any other community except in the anime community, for some reason.

          Emphasis mine. If what you are saying is indeed correct (is it? dunno), this is a sign that the acronym “CSAM” was completely derailed.

          Originally the expression “child sexual abuse material” was coined to avoid implications of consent brought by the word “pornography”, and it boils down to “evidence of child sexual abuse”. Consent and sexual abuse are legal notions that only apply to real people, not to fictional characters.

          In the meantime, at worst the instance in question depicts images of clearly fictional characters in suggestive poses and/or clothing. It does not classify even as pornography, let alone sexual abuse. (Note that not even hentai depicting clearly adult characters is allowed in that instance.)

          I don’t care about what the maintainers’ view of the matter is, I make (and sometimes delete) my comments based on my own view of it.

          Given that this is a touchy subject, I think that this matter is better handled neither by the maintainers’ views nor by our own views, but by 1) legal definitions of governments that might be relevant in the matter, and 2) explicit moral premises.

          • Lvxferre@lemmy.ml
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            To be fair with the above, even considering that he’s being disingenuous*, his [AFAIK incorrect] claim is not “anime is child porn”, it’s “that anime instance has child porn”.

            *note how he’s trying to transform “is this CSAM?” into a subjective matter. That’s rather close to the moving goalposts fallacy.

    • NeshuraOPA
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      I highly doubt anyone is actively fucking with the /c here (other than the admins). I’d simply suspect missing metadata or some shit before assuming someone is somehow covertly sabotaging multiple open content discovery services for the fediverse.

      The source code for lemmyverse is public so there’s no need to just speculate. I haven’t checked myself but I highly doubt anime@lemmy.ml is somehow getting filtered out of the search results. Imo it’s mich more likely that the community is just the victim of some bug. Maybe check again in a few days, I know lemmyverse had issues with communities disappearing when they couldn’t be reached during the listing updates.

    • wjs018@lemmy.ml
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      6 months ago

      Like @neshura@bookwormstory.social said, those sites have instances drop on and off the rankings all the time. I had been checking lemmyverse quite frequently over the past couple months…for no reason I am going to mention in this thread…and instances will disappear and reappear every couple days. The ml instance in particular was prone to that. No foul play going on, just typical software flakiness.

  • How_Sway@lemmy.ml
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    All they’ve removed is a post that linked to an instance that they had de-federated from. They haven’t really taken off any anime related content from the time I’ve been here so claiming it’s content removal hammer is overblown. I also don’t agree with the migration to the other instance. This is the largest anime community by far on lemmy, it’s where most new users will migrate to and other than not having access to Shinobu, there has been little to no signs of being censored or anything.

    • Lvxferre@lemmy.ml
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      In my opinion, the migration is sensible because:

      1. You need to know a topic decently enough to be able to moderate a community about it. And yet it’s unreasonable to expect the admins of lemmy.ml - a community about free/open source and privacy - to know about anime.
      2. There’s no inherent reason why this comm is the largest anime comm in Lemmy. It’s simply that this comm is three years old, from a time when “Lemmy” was mostly just lemmy.ml and lemmygrad.ml, there was no other place in Lemmy to discuss anime.
      3. Lemmy as a whole benefits from redirecting traffic from larger instances to smaller ones. Specially instances unrelated to politics and tech. In fact, lemmy.ml’s admins asked users to use other instances not too long ago.
      • ram@lemmy.ca
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        Communities are best served by an instance more tailored to their content. General instances are good and convenient for people new to the platform, but they’re dangerous to communities. Think of all the beehaw.org communities that are effectively quarantined from .world users. Not that defederation is wrong, in fact I’m a huge supporter of defederation as a whole. But putting relevant content onto a more relevant instance will ensure that the community will be more likely accessible, broadly, to users regardless of defederation.

        If .ml wishes to not have anime content, that’s entirely their prerogative. It’s important, then, that anime be moved to somewhere that is is welcome, or else those in the community may find themselves without a community at any given time.

      • GarbageShoot [he/him]@hexbear.net
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        You need to know a topic decently enough to be able to moderate a community about it. And yet it’s unreasonable to expect the admins of lemmy.ml - a community about free/open source and privacy - to know about anime.

        This is what mods are for. The sleight-of-hand is silly and obvious.

        • Lvxferre@lemmy.ml
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          7 months ago

          Not just the mods. Admins can (and should) also moderate content in their instances, specially when it comes to the global rules. And it’s clear that lemmy.ml admins want to do so, otherwise this thread wouldn’t exist on first place.

          • GarbageShoot [he/him]@hexbear.net
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            Yeah, but the admins, as the thread has shown, are mainly reining in violations of sitewide policy. Instance rules are mainly the job of mods.

            • Lvxferre@lemmy.ml
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              7 months ago

              Yeah, but the admins, as the thread has shown, are mainly reining in violations of sitewide policy. Instance rules are mainly the job of mods.

              So the admins are reining in violations of lemmy.ml-wide policy… while lemmy.ml rules are mainly the job of the mods??? Congratulations, that’s the dumbest thing that I’ve read today.

              Couple the above with the backpedalling (from “This is what mods are for.” to “Instance rules are mainly the job of mods.”; emphasis on “mainly”) - a sleight of hand, while lying that I was the one using a sleight of hand - and I’m led to the conclusion that you have nothing meaningful to add to this discussion, and can be safely ignored as dead weight and noise.


              Unlike the above, does anyone here have any decent counter-argument against “migrating this comm to that other instance would be sensible”?

              • GarbageShoot [he/him]@hexbear.net
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                while lemmy.ml rules are mainly the job of the mods??? Congratulations, that’s the dumbest thing that I’ve read today.

                Comm rules exist in addition to instance rules. You know, like those where “knowing about anime” etc. might actually carry some importance. Your rush to do an own has left you speaking complete nonsense.

    • Susaga@ttrpg.network
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      People come here because it’s big. It’s big because people come here.

      What if we went over there? What if we made the one over there big? Big, and entirely under the control of actual fans of anime who don’t dismiss the entire medium as porn, I might add. Wouldn’t that be better?

      • NeshuraOPA
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        I think some people have stockholm from how anime communities were treated on reddit and don’t realize that they can get a whole lot less censorship than that. I think it’s in everyone’s best interest if we move this last piece over. The lemmy.ml admins (at least in part) don’t want us here and people coming here likely don’t want the same bs censorship that was on reddit. Always ducking your head because getting noticed means half the content of the month gets hammered wasn’t fun on reddit and if possible I’d like this to be a better experience than that.

    • zabadoh@lemmy.ml
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      Actually according to the modlog, some “mod” removed for “Mahou Shoujo ni Akogarete • Gushing over Magical Girls - Episode 1 discussion” citing Rule 3 “No Porn”

      I mean the show is risque, but we’re starting to see nipples on Hollywood red carpets these days…

      “mod” being in quotes because of the uncertainty elsewhere in this post…

        • zabadoh@lemmy.ml
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          7 months ago

          …Aaaand the entries from the modlog concerning deleting my thread and post have been deleted.

          Wonderful transparency there…

          Fortunately, the bookwormstory.social entries are still there, so I could recover my scribblings.

          • Lvxferre@lemmy.ml
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            You’re talking about your thread about Mahou Shoujo ni Akogarete, right? It’s still in the modlog for me, even in private mode. I don’t think that they removed the entry.

            • NeshuraOPA
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              7 months ago

              yeah I don’t think they are actively messing with the modlog. That would get them a pretty huge outrage if discovered so I think it’s more likely just buggy, wouldn’t be the only thing currently not working as intended.

      • GarbageShoot [he/him]@hexbear.net
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        I mean the show is risque, but

        If there’s an “uncensored” version* because of the nudity, it probably qualifies as soft porn, all the more when a portion of the cast are minors (as the Wikipedia summary suggests they are). This doesn’t strike me as a hill worth dying on.

        *It’s been trending on 9anime

    • NeshuraOPA
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      It really isn’t the largest though, maybe by users but certainly not by activity. For example the post about “The Boy and Heron” winning a golden globe got 9 comments on the unspeakable instance and only 2 here. From my own experience posting to both that seems to be the norm.

      Regarding content removal from what I saw in the modlog the most concerning action other than preventing people from talking about alternatives was removing the Alya-san Key Visuals. So that gives you a good baseline of what will get hammered if noticed: pretty much everything.

      The defederation being grounds for removal of all mention is a bit silly but not a discussion I’m willing to go into here as it would be pretty off-topic. I repsect your opinion on the matter but imo it’s a very slippery slope to ban talking about something outright.

      To be pretty blunt here closing down here is more a formality than anything really, even just stat wise there are slightly more active users on the other instance and the users there are apparently a lot more engaged in discussion than people here.

    • Itte@sh.itjust.works
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      7 months ago

      They removed a post on Mahoako and a post on Roshidere apparently. And most people sign up for .world anway

        • Itte@sh.itjust.works
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          new user signs up

          “hey let’s talk about the latest episode of mahoa-” [removed]

          “hey let’s talk about the latest volume of roshide-” [removed]

          ¯\_(ツ)_/¯