Shinji, from Evangelion.
He’s 14. His mum is dead. His dad is a piece of shit and a manipulative bastard, who sees him as nothing but a pawn. “Emotionally traumatised” doesn’t even start to describe him. He’s pressured to pilot a mecha and if he fucks things up people will die, he knows that they will die, and that it’ll be his fault.
And yet people expect him to be assertive or to not have meltdowns? Come the fucking on.
Imagine if nerv had invested some of its money in the mental health of its employees. I like to think many issues could have been solved by hiring a few therapists.
A few? There are so many traumatized people that would need entire teams of therapists, it would probably increase their employee numbers by at least 50%
I think the biggest problem that people have with NGE is that it just isn’t your typical shounen anime. All of the characters behave in a way because of their past experiences. Shinji being abandoned by his father, witnessing his mother’s death without actually understanding or realising it, asuka being neglected by her mother and Rei being a clone. And all of them in their teens, in a broken world getting told to fight and probably die or humanity is doomed.
With how saturated anime are with flawed main characters that then use that flaw to their advantage to overcome their enemy, NGE just doesn’t do that.
I think that viewers just expect this hero story when they watch it.
I mean. I had a similar impression when I first watched it a long long time ago and thought that shinji was a wuss. But that was after I watched the typical shounen, DB, DBZ, Naruto and bleach. Not to mention that I didn’t understand what the fuck was going on. Only later after watching it a second time and digging into the background a bit, shinjis Oedipus complex, asukas hedgehog dilemma and the general motivation of each of the characters it made a lot more sense. Including the context of their situation made me appreciate the storytelling a lot more because it put everything into perspective.
Cool story, now get in the fucking robot.
… that was created using your mother’s soul!
Or some shit. Lol
In the 90s there was this purple dinosaur from a children’s TV show that everyone seemed to hate. I don’t know anything about him or why we were supposed to hate him. To know anything about him you would have to have watched a show for 3 year olds, so if you did that then you deserve to be annoyed by it. Right?
Wesley Crusher. I always liked him
I am only a few years younger than Wesley was in TNG. He was someone with whom I could identify. I never got the Wesley hate, and if it was not for the internet I would not know there was any.
Really? What’s to like about him?
An ambitious smart young man who has clear life goals and the drive to serve the federation and push the limits of human expansion and discovery? His character is to show that all generations young and old are willing to further humanity’s/the federation’s goals of a peaceful coexistence and cooperation for greater prosperity for ALL.
Some of Wesley’s haters often come across as honestly jealous that THEY couldn’t be born into such a time and place.
Edit: furthermore, a character like Wesley is SUPPOSED to be the way he is. It’s not the actor it is the character. Young viewers were meant to look at him as a mirror to themselves, a way to imagine yourself in such a universe, someone to identify with and better put your mind into the headspace of the story.
While Riker is cool and funny, you are not Riker.
While Picard is cool and professional, you are not Picard.
Fair.
I just always found him annoying and nothing much else.
Try rewatching with this context?
The context that’s he’s supposed to be an annoying child? You’re really not getting that people can dislike a character that is “well done”. Yes, he’s well done… as an annoying child who tries to act like he’s on the same level as Picard and Riker. He’s the equivalent of internet comments.
He had a tendency to be immediately dismissive, impatient, and often outright insulting to other cultures and non-Federation types. The kid needed some humility, and often showed his age and closed-mindedness when he shut out ideas that didn’t come from his superiors.
He was a kid, after all.
In a show otherwise filled with adults. This why we hate him. It’s a common trope that when you add a child/baby actor in a show that otherwise doesn’t have them, the show becomes worse. Wesley absolutely fits.
Skyler White. I didn’t even know that she was hated quite a lot. I always thought she is actually the most sane person given the situation she’s in.
Same, and I suspect that not many people ever did hate Skylar… But the narrative makes for good content, so the few that did hate on Skylar got portrayed as the majority.
IIRC, though, Anna Gunn mentioned having a lot of negative interactions with the audience conflating her with her character… So who knows.
She’s hated because Walt turned everyone against her - including the viewer, it seems
I like how these conversations always ignore the wrong things Skylar did, such as cheating with Ted. It’s always “well Walter was the devil, so anything she did was ok”. She still begins the show by showing very little care for his birthday and making it feel like a chore. She’s literally part of why he feels he’s in a hum drum boring life with no control. His character ark is largely about him going from a meek high school professor afraid to do anything into a completely fearless kingpin who finally has control over his life. Yes, the point is that he goes too far. But it’s also shown pretty clearly early on that he feels powerless and like his life is out of control(you know, like a sudden terminal cancer diagnosis might do).
Was Walter a bad person? Yes. Was Skylar also a bad person who didn’t truly see him as an equal and who, when given the chance, cheats on him remorselessly? Also yup.
Multiple people can be bad. Even Hank, arguably one of the most moral characters, suffers from major blindspots and is a dismissive dick to Marie.
People defending Skylar are the kind of people that say “I can do what I want because it’s a free country” and get shocked when they learn there are consequences to their actions, even if justified.
Jar Jar Binks. He’s my favorite Sith
My personal theory is that jar jar is not a sith but rather a domestic terrorist that is really good at making it look like an accident
Grandpa Joe, but not by much.
I’ll bite. Why doesn’t that freeloader who can suddenly jump up and dance, not deserve so much hate.
I think the hate around grandpa Joe is entirely misdirected…
This 96 year old man (that’s his actual age) hasn’t been working himself to death every day and people are upset about that? Sure he spent the last 20 years in retirement but also that means he retired at 76!
Most of the hate around Grandpa Joe seems to just be “why can’t the poor just work harder and then they won’t be poor?” THE MAN WAS 76 WHEN HE RETIRED! LET HIM RETIRE!
Everything he did while in the chocolate factory was fucked tho I can agree with that…
Edit: nvm I thought about it more and I have no issues with him stealing food given how intensely food insecure his home is.
Willie in Temple of Doom. So what if she wasn’t cut out for the big adventure! She liked her life in Shanghai- dresses, performing, champagne, and nightlife. She didn’t ask for any of what happened next!
Uncle Iroh
I know he’s a genocidal war criminal, but he lost his son and traveled a long path of tea and paisho eventually cherishing and mentoring his nephew.Uncle Ruckus
He’s a simple man, tryin’ to make his way in the world. Life’s dealt him a tough hand, but he played it the best he could. He worked hard, respected the values he was raised with, and tries to bring a bit of order to this chaotic world. He ma be rough around the edges and may not make words so good, but he believes in tough love and speaking his mind.Does anyone really hate Iroh?
Where in the world have you seen Iroh getting “more hate than he deserves”
I think it’s safe to say no one loves Iroh as much as he deserves.
I’ve never looked at the Uncle movie with John Candy in this way before. Not sure what to think.
Thanos; I can understand his reasoning, his solution doesn’t favor anyone either and seemed painless.
Except for his solution is basically, “Let’s put the population back a whole 40 years or so, while massively disrupting society and the economy and being guaranteed to traumatize virtually everyone remaining. That will fix everything!” The only person who could think that was at all reasonable would have to have a grade school understanding of how the world works and no interpersonal connections, or what they mean to most people.
And then he destroys the stones, so it’s not he planned for the snap to be the first of an every-few-decades population culling. This dork actually thought he had a permanent fix and threw away his tools in confidence that it was.
Nurse Ratchet. Lady was just trying to do her job.
Well, she was manipulative towards the patients. The worst part was when the young suicidal patient was with the girl and she reprimanded him, saying she was going to tell his mom. And she let him of her sight. It was just a power trip.
I think she was just extremely fed up with the bullshit by the time that happened. Obviously it was a bad decision, I’m not going to defend the belittling.
And forced a sane but disruptive man through a disabling procedure?
No. She went way the hell too far so she could protect her little kingdom and stay in power. She was not concerned with helping her charges improve their lot in life.
The movie takes place in a different time, just to be clear.
The patient in question was faking being crazy. Acted out and challenged her every single day. He even snuck all of the patients out of the hospital, stole a bus and a boat, and went off on everyone for shits and giggles at every opportunity.
Of course I don’t agree with the lobotomy. But he was pushing real damn hard for it.
He was also a jail jumper. They put him in that ward to finally get rid him.
Ratchet was fine giving them their meds every day, and being the only nurse in charge of doing meetings and everything else, until he showed up and instigated everything.
Completely disagree, but upvoted for having a well-argued, unpopular opinion which is kind of the point of this thread!
Thank you. Yeah I’m not trying to change any minds here haha. I know she’s the baddie.
I totally get where you’re coming from but wanted to put the counterpoint, as obvious as it was.
She was caring for those who nobody else could for at that time, and to generally good effect day to day.
I’ve worked in group homes and know of the challenges you face in serving those who aren’t all that stable.
Just would never have advocated for that solution for anyone really. All that is said with historical knowledge and such.
Yours was a good post.
She was trying her best with that she had and knew at the time, even if she overreacted in the end, to terrible effect.
I like the discussion. Obviously I’m not dying on any hills here. I just think it’s worth looking at the movie in a different pov. Thank you.
I’ve been on the other side, as a patient.
Edit. I think she did want the best for everyone. Even during the climatic scene. She just didn’t know what else to do, and using his mother as a form of pressure, while definitely wrong in hindsight, was really all she had left at the time. Don’t forget that scene is the morning after they all threw a party and everyone was basically drunk, including staff.
I also recommend reading the book. It’s really good.
