This is a “let them fight” situation
I guess but it sucks for civilians caught in the crossfire. Can’t we just have a Khamenei/Bibi cage fight instead?
And then we just don’t let the winner out of the cage.
I’d be down for that. Let the leaders fight!
The problem is, large parts of each country are supporting their government in what they’re doing.
The “settlers” aren’t civilians, they chose this fight and hopefully they get what they deserve.
No uninvolved civilians huh? Where have I heard that before…
The “settlers” have used force for political reasons so they’re terrorists.
Terrorists aren’t civilians so they’re all valid targets.
So what you’re telling me is if you lived in Israel you’d be pro-genocide lol. You’re using the exact same logic as a transparent fig leaf for your anger and hatred, just like many Israelis do against Palestinians.
You can’t make blanket statements about people based on where they live or what family they were born to. They’re all different individuals with different beliefs and backgrounds. Not all Israelis support the violence, not all of them are settlers, many were born there. Some even lived there for generations. This is nonsense.
I never mentioned all Israelis. I said the settlers are terrorists, which they are per the definition.
Also what anger and hatred? I’m simply calling it as I see it.
The settlers use violence to destroy Palestinian communities, bulldoze them and then build their homes on stolen land in pursuit of a political agenda.
They’re terrorists and strikes on terrorists should be recognised as such.
Contextually I thought you were just calling all Israelis settlers. All Israelis (and all Iranians) will be threatened by a war between their countries. But OK, if that’s not what you meant then what I said doesn’t apply. Just a weird thing to focus on since it’s unlikely Iran would specifically target settlers.
Make it a knife fight.
There are no winners in a knife fight.
Iran has the right to defend itself, as they like to say
Another reason to hate Israel. They’re making me agree with Iran.
Ew.
Maybe you should reconsider your prejudice, then. Why are you so spiteful towards the country geopolitically opposed to the genocidal entity and doing something about it? Do you treat western countries (all of them maintaining economic, diplomatic and military ties with Israel) with the same contempt?
According to Veritasium and Game Theory (The prisoners dilemma) a retaliation is what should be done in this case
Agreed. The the enemy of my enemy is my, uh, enemy? They both suck lol
The enemy of my enemy is my enemy’s other enemy.
Nothing more, nothing less
Realpolitik is German for “short-term thinking that will eventually bite you in the arse”.
Exactly. Stop giving Israel weapons.
Just to add that I have become quite allergic to the “pre-emptive strike”, “weapons of mass destruction “ justification for war. Have we learned nothing?
We did learn that orchestrating these gets you paraded around by the “progressive” party in the US during the last election…
That’d be pretty swell, but then maybe please don’t go defend Israel from the consequences of its actions?
So are you contending that gay people should be openly supportive of Isreal, a country actively engaged in a genocide?
You see the problem here, right? These aren’t black and white, one side good, one side bad situations.
Iran is a terrible country. My partner and I would both be stoned to death there. But there are also queer people living in Iran, in spite of their intolerant regime, many of whom would likely suffer greatly if Isreal manages to force Iran into a war.
Reality is more complicated than just assigning “good guys” and “bad guys”. That shit is for Star Wars.
In this specific situation, there is no justification for what Isreal has done. Their attacks on Iran have been unprovoked, and in clear violation of international law. These must recent attacks, by Israel’s own admission, include non-military targets which makes them war crimes. Iran on the other hand has responded carefully and proportionally. Does it feel weird to be giving props to such a horrific regime for their behaviour? Absolutely. But it’s impossible not to recognize that in this specific situation they are being the adult in the room.
Isreal is actively trying to provoke a war with Iran precisely because they believe it will turn international opinion in their favour, distract from the holocaust they are enacting in Gaza and shore up domestic support for their government. I’m not a fan of anyone involved in this situation, but I sure as hell am not going to express support for the country trying to start a war to distract from their genocide.
Very well said and 100% accurate.
Basically, it’s like watching two of the worst people you know go at it in a fight.
Iran has problems, for sure, however it’s hardly the worst state in the region. In fact, on multiple occasions they’ve been willing to work with the UN and US to try and rejoin the international community.
The issue is both Israel and the US have acted like utter asses towards them.
Obama’s nuclear deal showed just how willing they were to engage in diplomacy. Even after Trump killed the deal, Iran was saying they’d be willing to renter again.
And frankly, the reason for Israel’s attack was almost surely because the Trump admin was again getting close to signing another nuclear deal.
There’s way too much conflating of Islamic nations and their policies. Iran isn’t perfect or great, but it is better than a fair number of the regions governments including many current allies.
Honestly when I read this it’s just like “you think Iran is bad but really the whole area is a cesspool” not that I personally disagree with that take but not sure you meant to throw the entire region under the bus, where it belongs
Yeah like, can they both lose please?
I think that’s how wars usually go
So are you contending that gay people should be openly supportive of Isreal, a country actively engaged in a genocide?
No, as evidenced when I said “Me when people are cheering on Iran, a country that literally executes gay people” instead of “Gay people should be openly supportive of Israel”. As you did not read what I wrote, I did not read your further paragraphs about something I did not say.
If you can’t understand why your post comes across as potentially saying people should support Israel then you probably shouldn’t be speaking out on issues like this.
When you say to someone, “Oh, you support [thing]???” In a negative way, and that thing is something that is diametrically opposed to another thing, it is almost always going to come across as implying support for the diametrically opposed thing. Your reply then comes off as a very bad faith response at best, if not a full stumble into narcissism.
It sounds like you’re projecting a lot.
They clearly stated twice that they are a gay person that does not support Israel. Learn to read instead of just seeing what you want to see to justify your anger.
That explanation came after the fact. The original comment is a reply to the original post, which does not include any of that context. You need to learn how the progression of time works before you try to talk down to me about reading comprehension, because you can’t even comprehend what order things arrived in.
I think this says more about your limited perspective than ops, truthfully.
Exactly how is my perspective limited when I am literally empathizing with the perspective of someone else?
Pity. Reading the further paragraphs would have made you realize that I wasn’t actually saying the the thing you assumed I was saying. But taking the path of least consideration seems to be your thing, so I can’t say I’m surprised.
there is absolutely nothing in the post that’s pro-Israel. it’s purely to remind people that two different things can both be bad.
both states, Israel and Iran, love doing crimes against humanity, and neither should be celebrated.
Where did he say that he supports Israel?
Israel is executing gay people, and straight people, and fathers, and mothers, and babies, and the elderly, and the sick, and the disabled, people in hospitals, and in refugee camps, and Muslims, and Christians, and Jews, and on, and on.
I don’t think people are cheering them on in general. Just cheering them on against Israel. Which, like…yeah. One of these countries has been committing outright genocide and murdering journalists and aid workers en mass for the last 2 years, and then provoked this latest attack by firing missiles at the other.
I don’t think people are cheering them on in general.
I wish that was true, but I’ve seen plenty of people cheer Iran on in general.
Campism is utter brainrot.
Yeah, I’ve seen a ton of flat-out support for Iran and Hamas on here, and it just hurts my head. Particularly when it comes from members of the LGBTQ communities.
Like… do they not realize what these people would do to them if they had the chance?
Why are we dumbing down the situation here? Life isn’t about single issues.
Maybe we’ve seen different posts, but don’t conflate the need to stop Israel’s mad crusade with supporting Iran’s regime.
The OP is literally talking about cheering Iran. So it is definitely about single issues for a lot of people.
Particularly when it comes from members of the LGBTQ communities
So, you, the (likely white and straight) saviour has to tell the gays what to do and who to support?
Israel, by shielding all its genocide in fake rainbow flags and under the guise of “western values”, does SO MUCH damage to LGBT communities all over the middle East. When you’re seeing “the self-proclaimed gay-friendly Jews” steal your land and attempt to murder your entire people, don’t you think there might be reasons why the oppressed end up having negative feelings about gays and Jews? Obviously LGBT-phobia is bad, but it is literally the west who forced this.
In the particular case of Iran, in the mid-20th century, the country democratically elected Mosaddegh, a secular and progressive leader who believed in feminism and who was in a coalition with broad leftists. What did the west do? Economic blockade to Iran because it wanted to nationalise IRANIAN oil fields that belonged primarily to BP, and staged a coup against him.
It’s literally the fault of the west that Iran didn’t develop as a better-functioning progressive, secular democracy.
You say that as if half of the people in their home country don’t want to do the same shit?
80* years
No, 2 years. To go with the “en mass” part in particular.
How long has Iran been killing gays?
I’m guessing it really picked up after the 1979 islamic revolution, so 46 years.
The state of Israel was recognised by the US in 1948, so 77 years ago.
How does this plays out in your head now? Please explain, but I’m really curious how one thing related to the other.
I would have guessed they have been killing gays for millennia. I like to flip the religious nutcase rhetoric on its head and say this is what happens to evil people, they brought it on themselves. It’s what they say when a western country gets attacked or has a natural disaster, they say things like this is god punishing them for accepting gay people. I say this is what they get for killing gays, they are pure evil. Also Israel get what they deserve for their oppression and genocide. Lesson to everyone is stop being evil.
Israel has killed more gays in the last year than Iran has in its existence
Really? Source for that, seems very hard to believe
Last year, Lancet estimated the dead in Gaza at about a quarter of a million. A year has passed since then, and the killing has only increased, so it’s plausibly at at least twice that now. Approximately 5 percent of people are gay, and Israel makes no destination in killing them, so that’s about 25,000 murdered gays.
Exact numbers for Iran are hard to find, but its of the order of magnitude of less then 1 a year, plus 20 in the immediate aftermath of the revolution.
So it’s a two digit number vs a five digit one.
That’s quite a leap in logic. Israel hasn’t killed any of these people because they are gay. I do see the point you are trying to make but defending the systematic killing of gay people undertaken by hamas or iran with whataboutism doesn’t help anyone
And Iran has been supplying drones for Russia so they can do the same in Ukraine.
They are both shit countries committing genocide directly or indirectly, they should fight each other to extinction.
Israel has also been supllying drones to Russia. They even demanded Ukraine to surrender to Russia.
This is not to challenge your statement. I find it important to understand that Israel is neither on the side of Ukraine, or on the side of NATO. Israel has no allies, it only has bitches doing its bidding.
Israel is not on the side of NATO
The things I have to read on this website, I swear
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel–Russia_relations#Drones
In April 2009, Russia purchased its first package of drones from Israel (the Bird Eye-400, eight I-View Mk150 and two Searcher Mk.2 UAVs). The deal was worth $53 million.[231] In a second deal, at the end of 2009, Russia purchased an additional 36 drones from Israel, in a deal worth $100 million.[228]
In October 2010, in a third deal, Russia purchased an additional $400 million of drones from Israel Aerospace Industries. The Israeli drones are to be assembled in Russia.[232] The production of the Russian-Israeli drones began in 2012, and delivery to the Russian military is scheduled for 2014.[228]
In 2015, one of the drones was reportedly shot down by the Ukrainian military near the city of Donetsk, Ukraine.[233]
In September 2015, the Russian Army purchased another $300 million package of drones from Israel, its fourth purchase of Israeli drones.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel–Russia_relations#2022_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine
On 24 February 2022, Israeli Foreign Minister Yair Lapid spoke out against the Russian invasion of Ukraine, stating “Russia’s attack against Ukraine is a serious violation of international order,”…
Lapid’s remarks were criticized by Opposition Leader Benjamin Netanyahu, who urged the Israeli government “to speak less about what they don’t need to talk about” on Russia and accused the government of “too many unnecessary expressions and too many false predictions”.
Israel declined to co-sponsor a UN Security Council resolution condemning the Russian invasion, leading to an expression of disappointment by the United States.[118] Israel later voted in favour of a UN General Assembly resolution condemning the invasion.[119] At the request of the United States, Israel also pushed the United Arab Emirates to back the resolution.[120]
An unnamed senior Ukrainian official accused Bennett of having “proposed that we surrender”, claiming that Bennett urged Zelenskyy to “take the offer” of a peace deal from Putin. This report was subsequently denied by both the Israeli Prime Minister’s office and a senior adviser to Zelenskyy.[125]
Following the Bucha massacre, Israeli Finance Minister Avigdor Lieberman condemned “war crimes” but declined to condemn Russia specifically, describing “mutual accusations” where “Russia blames Ukraine and Ukraine blames Russia”, drawing a rebuke from the Ukrainian Ambassador to Israel.[130] However, Foreign Minister Lapid stated that “Russian forces committed war crimes”.[131] Israel subsequently voted for a resolution to suspend Russia from the United Nations Human Rights Council.
in February 2025, Israel joined Russia in voting against a UN General Assembly resolution reaffirming Ukraine’s territorial integrity.[189]
In February 2025, Israel lobbied the United States to allow Russia to maintain military bases in Syria, as a counterweight to Turkish influence there.[190]
In March 2025, Russia invited Israel to attend its 2025 Moscow Victory Day Parade, despite excluding most Western nations.[191]
Again, Israel has no allies as it extends no loyalty to anyone. It only has bitches doing its bidding.
Not cheering on their domestic policy, but ppl are xheering on their choice to defend themselves from attack.
Well said
If one tribe is bad, the other one must automatically be the good one.
There can never be such a thing as TWO bad tribes fighting each other.
The dreaded heel vs heel match
With ordinary people who just want to live their lives slaughtered by both.
me when people like you conveniently start to pretend to care about gay people only when something happens to Israel
The other 350 days a year they’re “concerned” about the fairness of allowing trans athletes to compete.
Like most godfearing red-white-and-blue-blooded Americans, I spend about 16 hours a day watching girls’ high school swimming, and let me say, it’s a travesty that the sport is 90% trans girls now.
There is concept on the left called “critical support” it broadly means we agree with that one thing you are doing, but we also do not agree with other things.
In this case we can say: For sure killing LGBTQ+ people is not good, but striking a country that is currently carrying out a genocide is a good thing.
P.S. if you have better source for critical support please send.
There is concept on the left called “critical support” it broadly means we agree with that one thing you are doing, but we also do not agree with other things.
also known as “the art of holding more than one thought/belief at once”
are you citing 1984 to this guy?
You can hold multiple beliefs at once without them contradicting, having more than one belief isn’t automatically doublethink
yeah that’s what i meant, in case i wasn’t clear enough
Yeah, I was answering to the person who answered you, who apparently thinks having more than one belief as a time is doublethinking because double=2
Iran’s not shooting missiles in defense of Palestine, just in retaliation for Israel shooting at them.
But there’s certainly a level of “oh, is blowing up an apartment building a bad thing? Then WTF have you doing???”
Good point, I still think that no matter (for this case at least) why are they doing it for, they are opposing Israel, and that is a good thing.
Iran’s not shooting missiles in defense of Palestine, just in retaliation for Israel shooting at them
And why is Israel shooting at Iran? Maybe because Iran is geopolitically opposed to the naziest state in this century, and that’s an awesome thing in and out of itself?
This is important because unthinking tribalism pushes anyone on the fence away from wanting to hear your position, and we don’t need any more people pushed to the right.
Like when Trump torpedoed the Trans-Pacific Partnership - which would have meant all involved countries would have fallen under (globally draconian) US intellectual propery law and other controversial changes. In short, it was a huge win for corporations an a huge loss for consumer rights. Trump torpedoed it because it wasn’t “putting America first” enough. So, although he stopped it for a stupid reason - it was great that he stopped it anyway.
It was of course renegotiated a few years later as the ‘Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for Trans-Pacific Partnership’, but notably with almost all of the intellectual property crap removed or vastly de-fanged, and various other controversial provisions removed - and that agreement passed. So it was a lasting win.
But if you ever say 'i hate Trump, but not everything Trump has done is bad because… ', you are still likely to get a hundred Lemmy downvotes even if you explain why. Hopefully people can learn that you don’t have to disagree and disavow someone/some entity all of the time just because you disagree with them in general. A win is a win and it’s ok to say ‘hey actually that’s good’, it doesn’t mean you support or like them - it just means you think they made one good decision.
It’s not why do people support Iran? It’s why do people not support Israel?
It’s not about critical support it’s about critical thinking. It’s about the big picture. Not about who to support and who to hate.
It’s about control. It’s always about control. 97% of politics is distraction and war means politicians have failed their number one reason to he in charge. To make the daily lives of people better.
Israel doesn’t need offshore fossil fuel deposits. They just want control of those resources and money.
The most important thing going on right now is the transition to green energy. Not religious people killing each other. People don’t like to hear that. Rather than think about that it makes them happy to insult people about it. Just like it makes people happy to have control.
Thanks to Project 2025, the USA is not far behind Iran.
Me when people are cheering on Israel, a country that literally executes innocent children
haven’t you heard, Gaza isn’t friendly to gays, that’s why it’s ok to bomb all the people of gaza indiscriminately, including the gays.
Fun fact. Irans executions of gay people in its entire history didn’t happen until after the Islamic revolution. Before then and all the way even before the rise of Islam, whatever state that occupied Iran now all had harsh laws against homosexuals…
But enforced none. Not during pre-Roman times, Roman times, early Islamic era, medieval Islamic era, modern Islamic era. None. Not until the 80s did it happen.
It means Iran absolutely can return to a time when homosexuals were at least ignored by the law.
They certainly are in Saudi Arabia. They say if you prosecuted homosexual acts there, you’d have to put a fence around the entire country. I guess forbidding the socializing of females outside of marriage limits options.
We are not talking Saudi Arabia. We are talking Iran.
But there is something I need to mention about Saudi Arabia and executing gay men. I did look at a list of executions for the charge of sodomy (which is what it is referred to as. Simply identifying as a gay man doesn’t appear to be an offense. They need to catch two men in the act for it to happen) is when those executions happen it was never just for sodomy, it was usually compounded by another (universally serious) offense such as rape of a child and/or murder.
So the gay men being executed weren’t just accused of fucking another man, but also of killing another person (quite possibly the same guy) or of raping a child.
Now am I missing some cases? Maybe. I dont spend that much time looking at Saudi Arabia’s prolific executions (they execute more people per capita than any other country), but most people executed in Saudi Arabia aren’t gays, they are drug smugglers.
I do not agree with the death penalty at all. So even executing drug smugglers is off-limits to me. Drugs should be legalized (or at least decriminalized) and strictly regulated, but no prison time for them, and certainly not an execution.
I’m somewhere along the lines of “I just hope both teams have fun”, but the opposite of that
Wishing both sides a very happy total collapse of their existing state
The people of Iran do not deserve this. They are under religious authoritarian rule and suffer every day at the hands of these brutes.
Israel on the other hand has many people that support genocide against the Palestinians.
I hope none of the resistance in Israel get hurt or are displaced. I hope no innocent civilians get hurt or are displaced in Iran.
What are you doing having a sensible and empathetic take around here ?
It seems to me this is yet another distraction scheme? Make the people supporting gay rights and the people opposing Israel’s cruelty angry at each other?
Don’t be fooled. Israel is throwing bombs at civilians regularly because it doesn’t even think of Palestinians as humans!
If Israel really stands for “Western values”, then i want nothing to do with them. If they throw bombs at innocent people, then they undermine their own credibility and don’t deserve to have a say in the world’s politics.
And trans people aren’t treated as equal and they are constantly attacked by their fellow citizens.
Oh wait that’s America.
I don’t know much about Iran, but do they have legalized slavery? Because America does.
I don’t know much about Iran, but do they have legalized slavery?
It’s debatable, and I’m by no means an expert. But forced marriage is still a thing, where you sell your daughter to a man to clear your debts. If you ignore all the sex slaves, there are still about 600k people living in “modern slavery” conditions. The government isn’t doing anything about it either from what I gather.
So no, it’s not legal the way it is in the US through prison systems, but it is very much a huge issue that isn’t being corrected.
But I mean between the US, Israel and Iran… There really are no good guys. Each of these governments does some real horrible shit.
Every country is fucked now. There are no heroes, only victims and victimizers.
Maybe they are cheering against Israel and not so much for Iran.
