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I have a friend in DC and she frantically started texting me right after this happened. Such a lose of life, all those young kids coming back from a skating event dead, and for what, so Trump can wave his tiny fat peen around pretending he did something worthwhile. Good god I think I need off this ride, gonna be a long four years.
It’s only just starting, too. It’s been a fistful of days.
Things are going to go quickly. There’s a lot to dismantle before midterms.
Can we fucking stop? This is just as pathetic as Dump claiming the crash was because of DEI.
The crash was caused by the helicopter pilot.
It had nothing to do with DEI, it had nothing to do with people getting fired. We can hear the audio logs between the tower and the helicopter pilot. ATC did their job correctly. This accident would have happened regardless of whether the firings happened or not.
People are dead. And both sides are just so fucking eager to turn it into something political. Hey, guess what? Sometimes, shit just fucking happens. Not because of any woke ideology, and not because of the actions of an orange turd, but because humans are accident prone creatures and often fuck things up. The only one to blame is the helicopter pilot and he’s fucking dead now.
You know how stupid Dump sounds to you when he says it was because of DEI? Pretty fucking stupid right? I mean, DEI clearly isn’t what caused it and you’d have to be either a liar or a complete dumbfuck to make that claim.
Well… That’s what the right thinks about you all when you try to pin the blame on the firings. It clearly isn’t what caused it and you’d have to be a liar or complete dumbfuck to make that claim.
I don’t agree at all. Before the crash even happened the controllers sounded stressed. There was absolutely an opportunity for ATC to call out to the helicopter pilot again to clearly state how close they were, but there was so much else going on that no one could monitor the helicopter that closely. When you have a helicopter flying through an active landing path it’s not enough to simply tell the pilot “don’t fuck up”. Why was there a training flight there in the first place? Unless the training was how to fly in the D.C. airspace, it could have taken place somewhere else. There were plenty of opportunities to do things differently so that a mistake from the pilot couldn’t have caused this many deaths.
In reality, the root cause of the accident is more likely from the airspace being far too crowded and the the lack of enough controllers to properly manage the area. The pilot couldn’t have made the fatal mistake if he was never in that situation in the first place. This is more a symptom of the long term staffing shortage in ATC, but the added stress of the head of the agency being fired, hundreds of their colleagues being fired (or maybe not, no one seems to really know), and the chance that they could wake up tomorrow without a job certainly meant that the controllers had more stress to deal with than just the aircraft in the air. We’re probably just going to have to wait a few months for the NTSB report to fully understand this.
Trump didn’t directly cause the accident, but his actions very likely could have contributed to it. Aviation safely is built on is built on layers and layers of systems to prevent the conditions for an accident in the first place. At the end of the day, taking a sledgehammer to a federal agency is going to make it run worse, and when the agency in question is the FAA, that means a higher risk of accidents.
This post does not claim that Trump caused the crash. It only says that Trump gutted a key aviation safety committee, presumably because he believes they aren’t necessary (or they slighted Elon or whatever the reason may be), only to have a terrible aviation disaster happen on his doorstep.
The contrast is what makes this a juxtaposition. It displays Trump’s lack of good judgement, it doesn’t blame him for the accident.
But the juxtaposition itself is stupid and is only being made in response to Trump’s dumbass claims as some sort of straw-grasping gotcha.
Imagine I had a roof that needed repairs and I decided to save my money and not fix it. Then the next day a meteor falls down and crashes through the roof. Two groups of people then report the damage, one next to claims that the original roof was made by immigrants, one next to claims that I didn’t spend money on repairs. But these are both dumb juxtapositions because it doesn’t matter. Neither would have changed anything. A meteor is a meteor and it will crash through regardless of who built it or what state of repair it’s in. It’s pretty clear that neither group actually gives a shit about the meteor or about my roof, they just have an agenda they’re trying to push.
+1
Don’t feed the trolls.
Kneejerk reacting to Trump’s stupidity by finding something ancillary to blame it on him only feeds the troll in chief. It’s disrespectful.
Ignore the rage bait, take occam’s razor based on what’s public, and let the investigators do their jobs.
Remember when abolishing TSA was an anti-Bush liberal cause - a defense of basic civil liberties against encroaching fascism? Now Trump says something negative about the TSA and the liberals reflexively jump to its defense.
Fuck Trump, fuck the TSA, and fuck anyone whose politics change with the weather.
It’s hard because with Trump everything he says comes from a misguided place.
So, it’ll be like:
Trump: “We need to get rid of for profit prisons…!”
Me: “Yes…!”
Trump: “… we should simply be executing everyone in the streets!”
Me: “… No…!”
So yea… Anyway, fuck Trump and fuck the TSA
I think this post is more about the “key aviation safety advisory committee” being gutted right before the worst air disaster in over a decade.
deleted by creator
I don’t really see people defending TSA anywhere. I just see people pointing out that Trump thinks DEI initiatives are at fault, while simultaneously thinking that thinning out the workforce in a notoriously understaffed field will strengthen the workforce.
I was about to clarify a few minutes ago, they were defending the TSA on reddit. “This is how you get 9/11” or something like that.
How do you even know what they were saying on reddit a few minutes ago? squints suspiciously
Half of reddit wasn’t even born yet when we were bitching about the post 9/11 security theater
Yes I’ve seen a lot defending TSA on Instagram as well
Bin Laden said he did 9/11 to bring attention to the Palestinians suffering. So supporting zionism is how we got 9/11. About two and a half decades later we havent learned a single thing. If anything we care less about human lives all the time.
Bin Laden was very clear that the US military presence in Saudi Arabia was the primary factor. Palestine was mentioned but was never as big of a motivation as Al Qaeda’s goal is reconstructing the caliphate in Medina which would be complicated if the US military were present.
Maybe we’re reading different source material.
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/binladen/who/miller.html
PBS interview transcript: "when I asked bin Laden if he was worried about being captured in an American raid, he quickly dismissed the possibility, turning instead to the reasons he hates the United States.
"The American imposes himself on everyone. Americans accuse our children in Palestine of being terrorists–those children, who have no weapons and have not even reached maturity. At the same time, Americans defend a country, the state of the Jews, that has a policy to destroy the future of these children.
“We are sure of our victory against the Americans and the Jews as promised by the Prophet: Judgment day shall not come until the Muslim fights the Jew, where the Jew will hide behind trees and stones, and the tree and the stone will speak and say, ‘Muslim, behind me is a Jew. Come and kill him.’”
Bin Laden never raises his voice, and to listen to his untranslated answers, one could imagine that he was talking about something that did not much concern him. Nonchalant. He does not smile. He continued, looking down at his hands as if he were reading invisible notes. “Your situation with Muslims in Palestine is shameful–if there is any shame left in America. Houses were demolished over the heads of children. Also, by the testimony of relief workers in Iraq, the American-led sanctions resulted in the death of more than one million Iraqi children. All of this is done in the name of American interests. We believe that the biggest thieves in the world and the terrorists are the Americans. The only way for us to fend off these assaults is to use similar means. We do not worry about American opinion or the fact that they place prices on our heads. We as Muslims believe our fate is set.”"
…
“We do not differentiate between those dressed in military uniforms and civilians; they are all targets in this fatwa.” Bin Laden argued that American outrage at attacks on American civilians constitutes a great double standard.
“American history does not distinguish between civilians and military, not even women and children. They are the ones who used bombs against Nagasaki. Can these bombs distinguish between infants and military? America does not have a religion that will prevent it from destroying all people.”
Bin Laden believes that what we consider to be terrorism is just the amount of violence required to get the attention of the American people. His aim is to get Americans to consider whether continued support of Israel is worth the bloodshed he promises.
“So we tell the Americans as people,” bin Laden said softly, “and we tell the mothers of soldiers and American mothers in general that if they value their lives and the lives of their children, to find a nationalistic government that will look after their interests and not the interests of the Jews. The continuation of tyranny will bring the fight to America, as Ramzi Yousef and others did. This is my message to the American people: to look for a serious government that looks out for their interests and does not attack others, their lands, or their honor. And my word to American journalists is not to ask why we did that but ask what their government has done that forced us to defend ourselves.”
Cicling back to you though mothmandelorian, I see you made a surprising number of comments defending Elon Musk and insisting he’s not a nazi and didn’t make a nazi salute. So it could also be you just deny anything you dont like, even in the face of video evidence–and substiture your preferred version of reality in the place of whatever is real. Good chat. Cheers.
Yeah look into the official 9/11 report. You’ll find more about the express goals of AQ and OBL beyond a singular piece about him on PBS which will highlight the issues surrounding Saudi Arabia. Alternatively you can just look into what AQ’s primary goal is and figure it out on your own as the caliphate as the end foal makes it very clear what the intent is.
I have not defended Musk I have explained why the US press will not call what he did a Nazi salute out if fear of libel suits. I also understand there’s a difference between Nazism, which is specifically a German fascist ideology centered around creating a master race to rule the world under a 1000 year reich, which you cannot find evidence of him supporting and would need to in order to win a libel suit and fascism in general which he does support. Is that too nuanced for you to understand?
Yeah look into the official 9/11 report.
you really think thats an accurate and truthful document? I have heard it said that the fundamental difference between right wingers and left is that right wingers embrace hierarchy and tradition. Your rejecting any accusations of Musk and waving around the 9/11 report seems to speak for itself.
Try looking at the 1996 fatwa OBL issued as well where he states again his opposition to KSA housing American soldiers and how he will bring the war to America.
“So the people of Islam realised that they were the fundamental target of the hostility of the Judeo-Cru- sader alliance. All the false propaganda about the supposed rights of Islam was abandoned in the face of the attacks and massacres committed against Muslims everywhere, the latest and most serious of which—the greatest disaster to befall the Muslims since the death of the Prophet Muhammad—is the occupation of Saudi Arabia, which is the corner- stone of the Islamic world, place of revelation, source of the Prophetic mission, and home of the Noble Ka’ba where Muslims direct their prayers. Despite this, it was occupied by the armies of Christians, the Americans, and their allies”
GOD DAMN DEI HIRES
Just look at this:
Rich people = Less than 10% of US population
US Cabinet = Rich people are basically all of them
God Damn DEI and the minority (Rich People) runing everything.
How did a DEMENTED OLD CONVICTED FELON became president?
Fucking woke AF
Go to a old people prison
jesus fucking christ
You will never convince me he is not Russia’s boytoy here. Putin has got to be grinning his ass off right now
No, i think you’re wrong. It has nothing to do with Russia. Rather,
Tendency of the Rate of Profit to Fall (TRPF) is at work and is causing wages to decline over time. This was predicted as far back as the 19th century, and it took a long time (longer than most people expected) to carry out, but now we’re seeing the consequences.
Through the centuries, we (humanity) have seen multiple waves of development:
- agricultural
- industrial (heavy machines)
- informational
Now, the last of these three big waves is coming to an end (rapid internet enshittification), humanity ceases to be able to give meaningful employment to the people. This is why we’re seeing a rise in bullshit jobs and working poor - because wages are falling.
People like Trump held the belief for a long time that it was because people were getting “lazy and inefficient”, and if they return to power, they’re gonna kick everyone’s ass, reduce avocado toasts, and get the economy flowing again. Truth is, however, and Trump will have to admit this, that the people’s employment/economy is slowing down NOT because of lazyness, but because there’s simply not much left to do for us humans here on earth. This is why we’re going to see mass unemployments in the coming decades, and Trump’s attempt at “efficiency” isn’t going to solve things.
In my opinion, what we need now, is Universal Basic Income (UBI). It stabilizes society and gives people guarantees about their future. I am saddened that so many people seem to oppose it, but i think it would be a really good idea and we should work towards it.
I’m for UBI I just have zero idea how you implement it without authoritarian rules over industry, as in deciding how much stuff is allowed to cost.
We saw with COVID, people were given a measly 1000$ and all prices skyrocketed in unison… What a coincidence…
Our industries are too corrupt, and the minute you start giving out money to the poor, it will be essentially going to Bezos.
I’m also for student loan forgiveness, but again, we never addressed the cost of school so basically we burdened future generations with debt so bankers can get paid.
I don’t know what the solution is.
I also tend to grin when I’m getting my dick sucked.
Putin has other stuff to worry about. Other than enormous amount of troll all over the internet, he lost probably all the influence on the US.
I was reading the BBC live updates of the ‘briefing’ where Trump ‘answered questions.’ Starts at 17:21 if you scroll down.
Of course he blames it on DEI hires. He also blamed the helicopter and later said it was because of ‘practicing.’
Why does he think it’s DEI hires, you ask? Well, Trump answered, and I quote: “Because I have common sense, and unfortunately a lot of people don’t.”
What the actual fuck. Donald “I have common sense” fucking Trump. Lmfao.
Why does he think it’s DEI hires, you ask? Well, Trump answered, and I quote: “Because I have common sense, and unfortunately a lot of people don’t.”
God, I hate how many people think “common sense” is a legitimate argument.
Wait until you hear Salvini talking. He also sprinkles some “as a father” on it.
European politics is like a mirror at this point. A UK politician basically said virtually exactly the same thing, “I don’t make mistakes”, a few days ago, and then proceeded to make an absolute tit of themselves 24 hours later.
Anyone who ever says “I don’t make mistakes” should immediately be distrusted.
Who?
Bad Enoch herself, the one that can do nothing right.
She tweeted a photo of herself at the address of a conservative party voter, with his address clearly in the background, which is very much against electoral rules. 2 seconds in MS paint could have spared her that embarrassment.
While the claim is absolutely fucking insane, I will absolutely not be surprised if when the names are released we find out that one or more of the pilots flying were people of colour and it’s just trump playing racist trump things.
I don’t think it’s the fault of any of the pilots regardless of their race, but I can fully see trump’s pipeline of POC pilot = dei hire = plane crash as “common sense”.
What an absolute lunatic, we should never let the GOP live this down. Rub this in their faces, ongoingly. Never forget! Never Let Up!
You have to rub literal tons of cash into their face before you can rub their face into the mess they created. It also helps to be Russian. I don’t know I’m just sayin’.
But the price of eggs!
We don’t need the TSA or FAA for eggs. Chickens can fly.
Yeah but who’s gonna make sure only the right coloured cocks do the flying?
You’ll be saying that from inside Gitmo if we don’t organize and fight back.
I’m sorry but this is almost certainly unrelated to the crash. High level firings aren’t going to suddenly make air traffic controllers bad at their jobs a week later.
In a year if there’s a major airline disaster you can start pointing the finger at Trump.
You can be as “sorry” as you please; hollowing out vital services (remember, there was only 1ATC on duty when there should’ve been 2) CULMINATES with a catastrophic systemic failure. Did the gutting of the air safety group cause this - yes. Was it was the straw that broke the camel’s back - yes. Try to think less transactionally (like Herr Drumpf) and look at the problem as a whole, not a single incident.
PS, making a mid-air collision the fault of DEI policies is a narrow-minded and facile way to turn a tragedy into a political spectacle that can be monetized. Watch for over priced cheesy Trumpian baubles to "commemorate " this event. Coming soon to TSC.
He was president 4 of the last 8 years. His party has been attacking the job security of air traffic controllers for about 4 decades.
His party led by him even when he wasn’t in charge repeatedly shut down the government making essential workers work for free and threatened to do so.
They have been saying that they would basically fire and replace everyone for the last year.
He is the single largest barrier to any effort to retain and hire talent by the federal government since 2016.
None of this speak conclusively to cause which will require investigation but unlike DEI its an actual objective factor its just not as neat a package as this sound byte
That’s not what juxtaposition means. It doesn’t mean thing A is caused by thing B, it just means that thing A and thing B appearing next to each other produce an interesting association.
@errer@lemmy.world this is an important distinction with this post. It’s explicitly saying they are unrelated by saying it’s a juxtaposition.
You might can point the finger sooner, just not for the reason OP hints at. The helicopter was military, and there a closer link to Trump and his administration given that. I wouldn’t jump to conclusions, but he is already blaming DEI, because of course he is.
I mean it was a Black Hawk, that seems like a DEI hire. /s
Black Hawk Tuah is the cause of the crash!
(Also /s, of course)
Nice.
There are layers to this comment.
An ogre of a thread
Well, DEI makes the pilots gay and everybody knows what the gays do when there’s a stiff stick in front of them. It’s so simple.
They did say they wanted the military to be more lethal. Didn’t think they’d start with such soft targets as domestic passenger airlines though.
Yeah, there’s almost certainly no immediate connection. It’s possible that ATC people or the pilots were distracted by the Trump chaos, but he took office 10 days ago, 10 days isn’t enough for a real cause-and-effect relationship here.
Having said that, this is definitely a warning of what his terrible decisions could do. Hopefully there’s enough of a backlash that he’ll reverse himself.
My brother works for the FAA. It’s been fucked for a while now and Trump isn’t gonna make it better. They are dangerously understaffed.
That being said, yeah this wasn’t Trump’s or the FAA’s fault. The helicopter pilot was told to maintain visual separation with the landing plane and then didn’t do so.
I heard on NPR this morning that the ATC said “do you see the plane” without specifying which plane. There was another larger plane taking off at the same time. So could be partly ATC’s fault.
That being said nothing like this happens without multiple failures by multiple people.
Yeah I feel like it’s not really fair on the victims or the victims families to blame any one person at all. It’s a tragedy for sure but it’s not like anybody fucked up on purpose. It doesn’t really help to lay blame on an individual, just figure out where the mistakes happened and amend the procedures so it hopefully doesn’t happen again.
The audio is out there, being pretty familiar with air accidents and radio call outs:
ATC wasn’t clear, they just said “go behind that plane”, yet if you listen to literally any of the other ATC callouts in the surrounding 10m they’re all proper with heading and altitude like “AAL111 go to 3000’ and hold heading 270”, yet with the helo he just says “go behind them”
The helicopter doesn’t change heading at all and just basically plows into the passenger jet (from what I can see on the ATC map anyway), so I think either they misjudged their speed vs the jet they hit or mistook it for another jet
Either way: ATC should have been more clear, heli pilot should have asked for clarification before proceeding without any change or even slowed when the uncertain command came through
Given the relative speeds, I think it’s more likely the plane plowed into the helicopter than the other way around. The minimum speed of the jet (a CRJ 700) is about 145 knots indicated air speed, the max is about 470 knots. The Black Hawk has a minimum speed of zero, and a maximum of about 180 knots. The two might have been moving at a similar speed, but if one was moving faster and crashed into the slower-moving aircraft, it was almost certainly the jet that crashed into the helicopter.
Black Box Down is a good podcast to hear a bunch of incidents similar with communication being a huge issue in most of them
Do they have an episode on Flight 800? I’d be really interested to hear that.
Did they also receive the federal employee “buy out” email yesterday morning? I’d imagine that would induce a lot of unnecessary added stress.
Also to add, this is hardly the first airplane crash in a while. There was even a near miss in Arizona just over 2 weeks ago https://people.com/united-and-delta-flights-nearly-collide-while-heading-to-phoenix-airport-8774470
Don’t be sorry. No one said that this was direct causation. It is merely irony.
It doesn’t need to be sudden. It’s a fucking problem.
Or it’s enough of a distraction that some standard protocols failed due to a psychological shift of confidence in the employees.
This is the correct answer.
Trump news conference is insane. “This is all DEI’s fault”. Any personnel that will have wrong race or gender despite their hiring date will be “all of their fault”. Certainly anything that goes wrong in government in future, is that one black woman’s fault, too.
Remember how LA’s lesbian fire chief who had like more than two decades of firefighting experience was a “DEI hire”? (She was in part hired to clean up a culture of sexual harassment and rape cover ups - which is what they really don’t like.)
People need to remember this as they look for hope that people will suddenly turn on Trump. Rather than the right wing media politicizing shit, it comes straight from the president. The right wing dittoheads nod along and act like headless repeaters.
Reminds me of boondocks when they blame the “false” uncle ruckus test results on a black intern they didn’t know about.
I suppose it adds a spin on “thanks Obama”
That’s what I heard (made up) Obama made this happen to make trumpy look bad. /s in case it’s necessary.
Hopefully this is his “fuck the TPP” Moment of the presidency where it makes everyone chill the fuck out with airport security theater.
A broken watch is right twice a day, that stupid netflix film is wrong, TSA are a bunch of assholes and always have been.
I remember flying into the US before 9/11 and it wasn’t like you could just walk around with a bomb. They really don’t achieve anything that wasn’t already being done.
I get sort of why security theater happens but what I don’t understand is why they seem pathologically incapable of giving coherent instructions or in fact holding on to things that they’ve just taken off you. “Oh you have an expensive camera that has been purposely engineered to be easy to hold” *proceeds to immediately drops it
yeah, some security is necessary , absolutely. Stop making me get undressed and fold and unfold a pram every six seconds. Don’t make us dump every fucking fluid we have.
Fuck Trump and everything he stands for, but I wouldn’t be sad seeing TSA’s security theater recede.
I didn’t hear about that, did he fire those people right before the crash?
They were fired about 9 days prior to the incident.
You’re right, happened on the 21st.
wow that’s crazy.
That’s the real question.
those firings happened on the 21st.
